Trial Transcripts

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(Whereupon, CRAIG STANLEY CHAMBERLAIN was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:)


D I R E C T  E X A M I N A T I O N  12:28 p.m.

MR. MURTAGH:
Q  Please state your name and spell it for the reporter.
A  Craig Stanley Chamberlain; C-r-a-i-g  S-t-a-n-l-e-y  C-h-a-m-b-e-r-l-a-i-n.
Q  Where do you live, Mr. Chamberlain?
A  Woodbury, Minnesota.
Q  I am sorry.  I can't hear you.
A  Woodbury, Minnesota.
Q  And are you employed, sir?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Where are you employed, sir?
A  At the Central Research Laboratories, St. Paul, Minnesota, 3-M Corporation.
Q  And what position are you in?
A  I am a Senior Chemist.
Q  Senior Chemist; and what are your job duties, sir, as a Senior Chemist with 3-M?
A  Research in material science.
Q  Could you explain a little more to the jury specifically what you do?  What does your job entail?
A  Research in developing new materials of a particular nature primarily for different products.
Q  Does that involve chemical analysis?
A  Yes, sir; it can.
Q  Let me ask how long you have been with 3-M, sir?
A  I have been with 3-M about a year and a half.
Q  Okay, and if I might ask, what is your formal education, sir?
A  I have a B.S. degree in Chemistry, an M.S. degree in Chemistry, and a Ph.D. degree in Chemistry.
Q  Would it be correct to address you as Dr. Chamberlain?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Now, as of February, 1970, Dr. Chamberlain, which degrees, if any, had you received?
A  I had received my B.S. degree in Chemistry and completed 8 units of graduate work toward my M.S. degree.
Q  And, with reference to your undergraduate education, approximately how many laboratory courses does that include?
A  Roughly about 15.
Q  Okay, and about how many working hours did you spend in the laboratory during these courses?
A  Very approximately, maybe about 2,000 hours.
Q  Now, did these courses -- and I am referring to the laboratory courses -- deal with the manipulation of laboratory tools such as instruments commonly used in scientific investigations?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Had you had any courses at this time that related to biological matters?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What were these courses, sir?
A  A course in life science or biology, a course in biochemistry, and also several organic chemistry courses.
Q  Okay.  Did these include laboratory examination of biological materials?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Including the use of the microscope?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Had you had any analytical chemistry courses?
A  Yes, sir; I had.
Q  Did these deal with the laboratory analysis of various materials?
A  Yes.
Q  Along with your laboratory training in college, how many chemistry or science lecture courses did you complete?  I am talking about your undergraduate education.
A  Approximately 20.
Q  Your major was?
A  Chemistry.
Q  Your minor, if any?
A  Physics.
Q  What degree did you receive from your undergraduate school?
A  Bachelor of Science Degree in Chemistry and ACS accredited degree.  That is the American Chemical Society.
Q  Okay, now, I am unfamiliar with the ACS.  Would you please tell the Court and jury what that is?
A  Yes, sir.  That is a national organization for chemists similar to what the AMA is for the medical profession.
Q  Now, I am going to change directions a little bit.  Were you ever in the Armed Services?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  When was that, sir?
A  From about June of 1969, to June of 1971.
Q  Is it correct to -- well, let me ask you: how did you happen to go in the Armed Services?
A  I was drafted.
Q  Where were you at the time you were drafted?
A  Sacramento, California.
Q  What course of study then were you engaged in?
A  I was in graduate school at the time.  I had started to work towards my Master's Degree in Chemistry.
Q  Okay.  Now, you got your draft notice.  I take it that you were inducted into the Army?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Okay.  Where were you stationed, sir?
A  Initially, I was stationed at Fort Ord, California, for basic training; and thereafter, at Fort Gordon, Georgia.
Q  Okay.  Over what period of time were you stationed at Fort Gordon, Georgia?
A  September of 1969, to about June of 1971.
Q  Okay.  Where were you assigned?
A  The United States Army Military -- I am sorry -- the United States Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory -- Chemistry Section.
Q  Is that known by some acronym in the Army?
A  Yes, USACIL, I believe.
Q  Now, what were your duties at USACIL?
A  I was to analyze material that could be of value as evidence in criminal proceedings.
Q  Now, I take it that you had received your Bachelor's Degree, and your graduate studies were interrupted by going into the Army.  Now, when you arrived at the laboratory or at Fort Gordon, what training, if any, in addition to your formal education did you receive at the lab?
A  I was given an intensive Army-approved six-month training course in forensic science.
Q  Now, when you say "intensive," is it correct that at that time, the Vietnam War was in full swing?
A  Yes, sir; it was.
Q  All right, if I might add, what services did the Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory provide in the United States?
A  The Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory located at Fort Gordon analyzed evidence for the Armed Services for the United States area and also the Canal Zone and Alaska.
Q  Now, in the course of your training, did you receive any instructions in the collection and analysis of blood stains?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  When I say "blood stains," I am referring to dry blood stains.
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Now, briefly, how were you trained in blood stain analysis?
A  I was placed under the supervision of Ms. Janice Glisson, the Senior Chemist and serologist at the Laboratory.
Q  Did you find your college training to be of any use here?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  How so?
A  Most of the techniques that were used in the analysis of blood stains were also techniques I had learned about in school.  That is, the application of the techniques I had learned in school in a general sense were just applied to specific analysis such as blood stain analysis in the Army.
Q  At that time, did your training include the study of articles and current journals relating to blood stain examination?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Could you name some of the journals that you had occasion to study?
A  Yes, sir; Journal of Forensic Science Society; Medicine, Science, and Law.
Q  Did you receive any additional Army training in criminal investigation?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  What was that?
A  I completed a portion of the criminal investigation or criminal investigator's course given at the Police School.
Q  All right, now, you said that you completed a portion of it, sir.  If you know, sir, why didn't you complete the course?
A  I was removed from the course because my services were required back at the Laboratory because we had a very high case load.
Q  Is it accurate to say that your attending the criminal investigation course was background or orientation type of instructions?
A  Yes, sir; I would say that is accurate.
Q  You were not slated to become a CID agent per se?
A  No, sir; not a field agent.
Q  Now, let me ask you: from what institution did you receive your Master's of Science?
A  Excuse me, sir?
Q  Your Master's of Science?
A  I received that in 1973.
Q  Okay, and from where, sir?
A  California.State University at Sacramento.
Q  And your Doctorate?
A  From the University of Illinois, 1978.
Q  During the course of your education, did you receive any awards or honors?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What were these, sir?
A  Well, I was on the Dean's Honor List.  I was elected to the Honorary Society Pi Lambda Epsilon and also to Sigma Psi.  I received as an undergraduate two National Science Foundation summer fellowships, and also as a graduate student, I received a three-year National Science Foundation energy-related fellowship.
Q  In addition to that, are you a member of any other professional organizations?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What are those?
A  The American Chemical Society, the Minnesota Chemical Society, Pi Lambda Epsilon, Sigma Psi, and also the 3-M Technical Forum.
Q  Any professional publications?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  In what field?
A  Chemistry.
Q  Does it relate to the analysis of blood?
A  To the analysis of blood, no.  Some of them may indirectly be related to blood.
Q  How many publications, approximately?
A  Besides my Master's thesis and Ph.D. thesis, I have five additional publications.
Q  Have you ever taught chemistry?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  When and where, sir?
A  As a graduate student both in the M.S. and Ph.D. programs in analytical chemistry, general chemistry, and also a fair amount in organic chemistry.
Q  Now, I would like to ask you some questions about the methods you used in the examination of blood stains at the CID Lab.  First of all, let me ask you, were the methods that you used, to the best of your knowledge, practiced in the same manner by all serologists at the Laboratory?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What examinations were you taught to perform?
A  Well, of course, the visual examination and then the chemical tests -- that is, the benzidine test.
Q  What is the benzidine test for, sir?
A  The determination of a possible blood stain.
Q  Could you please explain to the Court and the jury how you performed that test?
A  Yes, sir.  It is a simple chemical test to determine the presence of blood.  Usually, what one does is just take a wet swab and touch it to the suspected stain, add a drop of benzidine solution, wait about a minute, and then add another drop of hydrogen peroxide.  If the stain is blood, then a deeper blue-green color will develop on the swab.
Q  I take it that test just tells you whether it is blood.  Does it tell you anything further?
A  No, it doesn't.
Q  Okay, is there another test which tells you the species of the blood?
A  Yes, sir; that would be the anti-human precipitin test.
Q  I'm sorry, sir; would you speak up a little bit.  What is the anti-human precipitin test?
A  The anti-human precipitin test is to determine if a stain could be of human origin.  That is, if it is human blood.
Q  Well, let's say hypothetically that you have determined that a stain is blood and that it is human blood.  Are there other systems used for typing blood?
A  Yes, sir; there are.
Q  Okay, what system or systems were you trained in?
A  I was trained to determine the ABO Blood Group system, which is the one most people are familiar with.
Q  Is that sometimes called the International Blood Group?
A  Yes, it is.
Q  And how many groups are there in the ABO system?
A  There are four basic groups.
Q  What are those groups?
A  A, B, AB, and O.
Q  Okay, does everybody in the world have one of those four types?
A  Basically, yes.
Q  Now when you type a stain, let's say you determine something is Type AB blood.  Are you able, by typing it, to say that that stain came from a particular person?
A  No, sir.
Q  What do you determine?
A  We determine what blood group type it is.
Q  That it is?
A  That it is Type AB or Type O, something like that.
Q  Is it accurate to say that as you type a stain in the ABO system, you can say no more than that stain comes from or could have come from anyone in the world possessing that ABO Group?
A  Yes, sir; that is basically correct.
Q  Now let me ask you.

MR. MURTAGH:  At this time, Your Honor, I think if Mr. Segal has no objection --

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, let me ask you.  Are you familiar with the component parts of each ABO Blood Group?
A  Yes, sir; I am.
Q  And what are those?  Let me ask you, how many components are we talking about?
A  Well, with the antigens, we are talking about A, B, and H.  And with the antibodies, we are talking about anti-A and anti-B.
Q  Are you familiar with the distribution of these -- I think you described them as antibodies and antigens -- in the ABO Blood Group?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Before you go any further, sir, let me ask you to explain what you mean by the term "antibody."
A  That is a substance found in the liquid portion of the blood, which can react with red blood  cells to cause clotting.
Q  Okay, and an antigen?
A  An antigen is found on the surface of the red blood cells and also is involved in the mechanism of the clumping process.  Did I say "clotting" before?
Q  I think you did.
A  That was incorrect.  I meant "clumping" or agglutination.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, are you familiar with the relationship of those antibodies and antigens in the clumping process to the ABO Blood Group?  Do you understand my question?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Sir, would it help you to explain that relationship to use the chart?
A  Yes, sir; it would be very helpful.
Q  Have you had an occasion to review what is marked for identification as Government Exhibit 638?
A  I think I have.  I am not really sure of what the number is on the chart.

(Government Exhibit No. 638 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, if I may, I am going to ask you to assume that the information reflected in the first two columns of Government Exhibit 638, that is the family member and group are true; those facts are in evidence.
     Now, assuming that Colette has Type A, Kimberly has Type AB, Jeffrey has B, and Kristen has O; you don't have any personal knowledge of that, do you, sir?
A  No, no direct knowledge.
Q  Okay.  But, assuming those facts to be true, do you agree with the distribution of antibodies and antigens as reflected on that chart?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, we would move into evidence and ask that it be received, Government 638.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 638 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, you talked, I believe, about the clumping for agglutination process.
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Now could you explain, and would it help you to explain that process, by using that chart?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Okay.  For example, is there a clumping process -- does a clumping process occur when a stain containing the antibody B comes in contact with the substance containing the antigen B?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Okay.  Would you please explain how that occurs, sir?
A  Yes.  As I mentioned before, on the red blood cell surface, we have antigens present.  Antigens are present in both the liquid blood and also the resulting dried blood stain.  Antibodies are found -- the antigens from the red blood cell surface -- antibodies are found in the liquid portion of the blood, but remain in the stain upon drying.
     If you're a Blood Group Type A, then you have antigen A on the surface of your red blood cells.  Also, within the liquid portion, you have anti-B.  So antigen A always goes with anti-B, if you are A.  Similarly, if you are a Blood Group Type AB, you have antigen A and also antigen B, on the red blood cells, and no antibodies in the liquid portion of blood.  For Blood Group Type B, the same holds true; you have antigen B and anti-A.  That is, in the case of having a particular antigen, you always have the complementary antibody.  Finally, in Blood Group Type O, you have what can be referred to as an antigen H on the surface of the blood cells, and also in the liquid portion of the blood, anti-A and anti-B.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, could you explain the scientific principle on which dried blood stains are tested to determine which ABO Group, if any, is present?
A  Yes, sir.  If you have an antigen, a red blood cell, that is, Type A red blood cell, and these are brought in contact with antibody A, a clumping or agglutination reaction will occur.  This can be observed under the microscope as the red cells suddenly clump together in various groups.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, let me just interrupt you for a second and ask you, is it correct that this process is somewhat similar to what occurs if someone is transfused with the wrong type of blood?
A  Yes, sir.  So this clumping reaction, or agglutination reaction, is a basis for the determination of both antigens and antibodies in a blood state.  The antibodies are determined using the Lattes crust test, and the antigens present in the blood stain are determined using a technique called absorption-elution.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, you have mentioned those two tests, the Lattes crust test and the absorption-elution test.  Were you trained to perform those tests at the CID laboratory?
A  Yes, sir; I was.
Q  Okay.  Can you explain the methodology that you used at that time to perform those tests?
A  Yes, sir; I can.
Q  Would it help you to refer to the chart in doing that first with respect to the antibodies and then later with the antigens?
A  Yes, sir; it would.
Q  Have you reviewed those charts?
A  Yes, sir; I have reviewed the charts to that nature.
Q  Would it help you to refer to your chart in doing that first with respect to the antibodies and then later with the antigens?
A  Yes, sir; it would.
Q  Have you reviewed those charts?
A  Yes, sir; I have reviewed charts to that nature.

(Pause.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, the Government, pursuant to an agreement with counsel, would mark and offer as evidence 1133, a chart entitled "absorption-elution Method," and a chart entitled 1134, "Lattes Crust Method."

(Government Exhibit Nos. 1133 and 1134 were marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, first with respect to the Crust Method -- let me put this chart so that you and the jury can see it -- and I ask, if you would, sir, to please take a pointer and explain, first, the methodology in performing the crust test, what you would do and what you would see, and what you would conclude from what you saw.  Do you understand my question?
A  Yes, sir; the crust test -- the Lattes Crust Method is used to determine the presence of the  antibodies in the stain.  For example, if we have a Group A stain, this will contain the antibody anti B.  We use test cells -- A cells, B cells, and O cells -- and if we have a stain containing anti B, this anti B will react with B test cells causing clumping.
     There will be no reaction to the anti B with the A test cells or with the O test cells.  So, by taking a small amount of the blood stain, dividing it into three areas on a glass slide, and adding three types of cells, one type to each area of the stain, we can get a pattern that may look like this.
     If we do get this type of pattern -- that is, we see clumping only with the B cells -- then we know the stain contains anti B.  The same test then may give this type of result will get no clumping or agglutination with any of the three test cells.  Then we have an indication it is Type Group AB because there are no antibodies.  Similarly, if we had a Group B stain which contains antibody A, then only the A cells would cause clumping or would be clumped by the presence of the anti A.
     Finally, with Group O, since we have both anti A and anti B present, we will have clumping with the A cells and B cells, but not the O cells.  This test allows us to determine the presence of antibodies in the stain.  From this test by itself, we can have a good idea of what blood group type the stain is.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, you refer to the chart and, for the record, if you would, sir, please describe the difference in the two types of photographs that are on that chart, sir.
A  Yes, sir; this type of photograph in which you have an even distribution of the red blood cells corresponds to no agglutination, no change.  This is a microphotograph of red blood cells in black and white.
     This microphotograph illustrates the agglutination where you initially have material which is not agglutinated but, in the presence of the correct antiserum, the cells all start to bunch together.  It is held together sort of like glue, so we observe microscopically a clumping.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, is it correct that the reading of the test, if you will, is done visually under the microscope?
A  Yes, sir; it is.
Q  Now, with respect to the other chart -- let me just back up a second.  Did you perform the Lattes Crust Test as you have described it here on exhibits in this case?
A  Yes; I did, sir.
Q  Okay; now, let me show you Government 1133, a chart entitled "absorption-elution Method," so the jury can see that and ask you to explain the methodology which you used in performing the absorption-elution method.
A  The absorption-elution method is used to determine the presence of antigens; that is, the materials that are initially on the surface of the red blood cell surface and also present in the blood stain.  Now, the cells are hemalized during the drying process so --
Q  (Interposing)  Excuse me, sir.  I'm sorry.  I don't understand: what is hemalized?
A  "Hemalized" means the cells have collapsed or deformed.
Q  Thank you.
A  They have been destroyed by water or something like that -- the lack of water.  This test is used to determine the presence of antigens in the stain so what you have to do is sort of use an indirect grouping method.  We have on the surface of the stain the collapsed cells, the hemalized cells.  These contain the antigens.  For example, they may contain antigen A if it is a Group A stain.  One adds various antiserum to different samples of the stain.  I will just describe one example.  If you have a Group A stain or have the portion of the stain -- well, all portions of the stain would have antigen A.
     If we have an antigen A cell -- antigen A stain -- sorry -- and we add a antiserum first to this stain, part of the antiserum would be absorbed by the binding reaction.  We wash off the antiserum but some still remains because it's absorbed.
     We then take this material and go through a process called elution, which is heating up the antibody that has been absorbed and is now desorbed, it comes off into a solution into which we have placed A test cells, and so these cells then are clumped by the absorbed antibody which is coming back into solution.
     Now, if the original stain is Type A and we added anti B serum, there will be no binding and so when we wash the stain off, all of the antibody will disappear -- that is, with respect to the stain -- and so when we add the B cells, there will be no clumping reaction.
     So, basically what we have is for a Group A stain, this type of pattern would detect the A antigen.  For Group AB stains which contains both antigen A and antigen B, we observe clumping of A and B cells and with Group B which contains antigen B, we see these cells clump, and with Group O which contains antigen H, we see clumping with the H cells.
     This test is used to determine the presence of antigens.

THE COURT:  It is about time we went to lunch about now, if you are going into something else.  Members of the jury, we will take our luncheon recess now.  We will come back today at 2:30.  Please remember that you don't talk about the case among yourselves or with others.  Don't let anybody talk about it anywhere around you.  Have a good lunch.  Be back at 2:30.  Then we will make a decision about the trip to Fort Bragg later in the week.
     You may be retired now and then we will recess the court.

(Jury exits at 1:00 p.m.)


B E N C H  C O N F E R E N C E  (unreported)


THE COURT:  We will take a recess until 2:30, please.

(The proceeding was recessed at 1:02 p.m., to reconvene at 2:30 p.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R  P R O C E E D I N G S  2:30 p.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT:  Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.  I will tell you now just for your information while they are getting ready that the jury will be looking at the residence at Fort Bragg on Friday morning of this week at 11:00 o'clock.  There will be more details as to transportation and assembly hours and that kind of thing, particularly for people who are already in the area.  They won't have to come to Raleigh.  You will be foregathering down there Friday morning.
     Any further questions of this witness?

MR. MURTAGH:  Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Whereupon, DR. CRAIG S. CHAMBERLAIN, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:)


D I R E C T  E X A M I N A T I O N  2:31 p.m.  (resumed)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I believe before our luncheon recess, you had gotten finished explaining the methodology behind the absorption-elution test, so let me ask you if you test for the antibodies using the crust test and then you test for the antigens using the elution test, does that enable you to determine with a reasonable degree of scientific certainty what the ABO Blood Group is?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Is there any reason why you do a test both for the antibody and for the antigen?
A  Yes, sir.  One test complements another so you have a confirmation test.
Q  With regard to let's say the crust test -- well, with regard to both, is there a control that you use on your chemicals or your reagents?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What is that, please?
A  On the crust test, we test stains of known types, and sometimes also, the substrate.  That is what the stain is found upon.
Q  Do you do that say every morning as you are starting out?
A  Yes, that would be the procedure.
Q  And by substrate, do I understand you to mean, for example, if there is a stain on one of these objects on the table, you would test what?
A  A portion of the table that was unstained.
Q  Unstained, I see, okay.  Why do you do that, sir?
A  To check the reagents to make sure that they are working properly.
Q  Now, you have been trained, I believe, you testified in the use of these two tests for typing stains; is that correct?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Would you describe specifically how you were trained if you could, sir?
A  Yes, sir.  I was placed under the supervision of Ms. Janice Glisson at the Crime Lab.  She proceeded with my course of instruction which included introduction to journals in the field, demonstrations of the blood typing techniques, my doing the blood typing techniques, my being given training cases in which I did not know what the results were to be.  She would check these out -- that type of training.
Q  Now, when you say a "training case," is that an actual case that comes into the Laboratory?
A  No, sir.
Q  What do you mean by "training case"?
A  That would be some artificial exhibits that she would make up for me to test.
Q  Am I correct in assuming that she would know what the blood type was, but you would not?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  That is a training case.  Approximately how many of those training cases did you work?
A  I really don't recall, sir, but several.
Q  Several.  Now, did you ever work on an actual case that came into the Laboratory on which you were not the principal examiner?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What are those cases called?
A  Well, until I would be qualified for examination by myself, I would work in conjunction with somebody else.  We did not have any particular name for those cases.
Q  Would it be accurate to say that you would work that case blind?
A  Well, it would be a real case, so I would not know what the results were to be, obviously.
Q  And someone else would test also; is that correct?
A  At times; yes, sir.
Q  Did you perform a number of these types of cases?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Prior to becoming qualified?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Did there come a time when you were in some way certified or qualified to perform these tests using these methodologies?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  When was that?
A  I don't remember the exact date -- either in the middle of December or January.
Q  Of?
A  1970.
Q  January, 1970; I see.  Okay, I take it, then, that you were qualified prior to February 17, 1970?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, based on Dr. Chamberlain's training, education, experience, and literature that he has read, we would tender him for cross-examination as an expert in the field of detection of blood stains, determination of their species, and the typing of those stains using the ABO System and methodologies which he has described.

THE COURT:  Is this just on his qualifications?

MR. MURTAGH:  Yes, sir.

THE COURT:  Is there a desire to further qualify him?

(No response.)

THE COURT:  Apparently, there is not.  You may proceed and I will so hold.

MR. MURTAGH:  Thank you, Your Honor.

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, let me draw your attention to the morning of February 17th, 1970.  Did you have an occasion to receive a phone call?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And who was that from, sir?
A  It was from Mr. Arthur B. Conners who was the Chief Chemist at the Crime Lab.
Q  If you recall, sir, what was the substance of that phone call?
A  He told me to report to the Laboratory and that I would be going to a crime scene to collect evidence.
Q  Did he say what type of evidence?
A  Yes; physical evidence such as blood stains.
Q  Okay, as a result of that phone call, did you subsequently come to Fort Bragg on the morning of February 17th, 1970?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  How did you get there?
A  I was taken by car to the local airport at Augusta.  I am sorry -- I don't remember how I got to the airport -- but we left on a plane to Fort Bragg.
Q  Is it correct to say that you flew to Fort Bragg?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And you arrived at 544 Castle Drive?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Did you participate in the collection of evidence at the crime scene?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  During what period, sir?
A  From the 17th of February, 1970, to the 21st of February.
Q  Did you work with anyone?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  With whom did you work?
A  There was a team sent from the Lab and also criminal investigators at the scene.
Q  Okay, and in reference to the criminal investigators at the scene, with whom did you work?
A  I worked closely with Mr. Bob Shaw and also Bill Ivory.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, I think with agreement with counsel, we would mark and subsequently offer a number of physical exhibits.

THE COURT:  Very well.

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 114, a vial containing a stain marked D-7 from the master bedroom.

MR. SMITH:  I am sorry -- I did not get that number.

MR. MURTAGH:  It is a vial marked CSC Number 7 with the inscription "Master Bedroom, southwest closet door, round drop."

MR. SMITH:  What is the Government Exhibit Number, please?

MR. MURTAGH:  114.

(Government Exhibit 114 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 115, a vial marked CSC #13, "Scrapings from knife on north floor in front of dresser."  Exhibit D-13 from the CID.
     Government 116, "A  plastic bag containing a vial marked CSC #16, long fibers from rug in master bedroom on corner turned up on the side."

(Government Exhibits Nos. 115 and 116 were marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to that exhibit, if I might show it to you, as well as Government 322 in evidence, which they referred to as the "multi-colored throw rug," did you collect that exhibit from that rug, sir?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Do you recall what those fibers were, sir, in their color?
A  They may have been dark colored.  My memory on that is not that good.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would mark Government 118, CSC #18, which is bearing the inscription, "Drippings over bed, right over northeast corner of bed," CID Number D-18.

(Government Exhibit No. 118 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government Exhibit 117 CSC #17, a vial marked, "Heater under east window."
     All of these exhibits I believe Mr. Chamberlain will testify he collected in the master bedroom on or about the 17th of February.
     Government 119, a vial marked, "Articles removed from sheet off master bed."

(Government Exhibit Nos. 117 and 119 were marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, does that refer to the bottom sheet of the master bed?
A  There was only one sheet on the bed.
Q  When you arrived at the scene?
A  Yes.

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 120(a), which appears to be a pillowcase marked D-20 bearing the legend, "Pillowcase removed from pillow on bed in master bedroom."

(Government Exhibit No. 120(a) was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government Exhibit 121, also identified as E-20(a), bearing the legend, "Particles removed from pillowcase."

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, does this refer to this pillowcase which I have just identified.  Let me show it to you?
A  Yes, let me see it, please.  Yes, sir.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, at this time I would ask you to look at Government 105, which I believe is already in evidence.  I would ask you to take a look at it anyway.  It is a vial containing what appears to be a piece of rubber,bearing the legend, CSC-21, "Portion of a rubber glove with hair affixed (enclosed) in sheet on floor."  I ask you to take a look at that a second, sir.
     At this time, Dr. Chamberlain, I also ask you to look at Government 103, the sheet, and I believe this is Government 104, the bedspread, and I ask you, sir, what relationship, if any, that vial has to these objects?
A  Could I see those, please?
Q  Surely.
A  This exhibit labeled --
Q  (Interposing)  I'm sorry, could you speak up?
A  This exhibit labeled I-21 was found within these. 
Q  At what time did you find it, sir, approximately? 
A  I believe it was on about the first day I got there, the 17th of February.
Q  At the crime scene?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, if we have not already done so, I would offer Government 105 in evidence and ask that it be received.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 105 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, at this time let me show you Government 125, a vial marked CSC #23, and ask you if you recognize that?
A  This is marked CSC #23?  Yes, I recognize it.

(Government Exhibit No. 125 was marked for identification.)

Q  Okay, and if you can, sir, can you tell us what object if any is in the vial?
A  Yes, there are several wooden splinters, apparently.
Q  And is there any one that is larger than the rest?
A  Yes.
Q  Approximately how large?
A  Approximately three, there-and-a-half inches long.
Q  At this time I will show you Government photograph 439, which we would mark, and ask you if you recognize the object depicted in that photograph?
A  This looks the same as the object.  The phtotgraph looks the same as the object in the vial.

(Government Exhibit No. 439 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would offer Government 125 in evidence, as well as Government 439, a photograph.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 125 and 439 were received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  We would mark Government 126, a vial marked CSC #24, "Debris found under head region on rug in master bedroom."

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  I ask you if you if you recognize that, sir?

(Government Exhibit No. 126 was marked for identification.)

A  Yes, I recognize it.
Q  Did you collect it?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would offer Government 126 in evidence and ask that it be received.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 126 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  At this time we would mark Government 128, a vial marked CSC #27, "Stains from ceiling, master bedroom near light," as well as Government 129, another vial marked CSC #28, "Stains from ceiling of master bedroom," and ask that they be received.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 128 and 129 were marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  I would also mark and offer Government 130, a vial marked CSC #30, bearing the inscription, "'Pig' on headboard, north side" -- that is marked 130 -- and ask that that be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 130 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government Exhibit No. 131, a vial marked CSC #32, bearing the inscription, "Taken from about two feet, start at hall," and ask that that be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 131 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I take it you participated in collection of evidence in the master bedroom at 544 Castle Drive; is that correct, sir?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  Okay.  What other rooms did you recall that you also processed?
A  The hall, the hall bathroom, the south bedroom, the living room, and a portion of the outside.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, we would mark and offer Government 332, various pieces of flooring, also identified as D-145, and ask that they be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 332 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 334, also identified as D-157, another piece of flooring, and ask that that be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 334 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government Exhibit 333, another piece of flooring, also identified as D-156, and ask that that be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 333 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  We would also mark and offer Government 120, a blue sheet, bearing the inscription number 19, CSC, date 17/2/70, and asked that that be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 120 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I believe you testified you participated in the processing of the bathroom; is that correct?
A  Yes, sir; it is.
Q  And would you describe, sir, for the jury, please, the general condition of the bathroom as you observed it?
A  There were apparent blood stains in various areas of the bathroom.
Q  Okay, and did you collect those?
A  I collected some of them; yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  At this time, Your Honor, the Government would like to mark and offer Government 336, the vial marked D-36.

(Government Exhibit No. 336 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government Exhibit 337, the vial marked D-40.

(Government Exhibit No. 337 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 338, the vial marked D-43.

(Government Exhibit No. 338 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 339, the vial marked D-45, and ask that they be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 339 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

THE COURT:  Very well.

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, could you describe the collection efforts you performed in the living room, with respect to the area around the couch?
A  Yes, sir.  I examined the area around the couch, the walls, the couch itself, and part of the floor.
Q  Did you find any stained areas on the wall?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Did you collect them?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time the Government would mark and offer Government 341, 342, and 343, the vials also identified respectively as D-111, D-112, and D-113, and ask that they be received.

THE COURT:  All right.

(Government Exhibit Nos. 341, 342, and 343 were marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, if you could come down, please, to the model, and bring the pointer if you would, sir.  I ask you if you collected any evidence in the area which has now been identified as the hall bath closet or the linen closet?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  And standing behind the model, sir, so the jury could see, could you please tell us, sir, what you found, if anything?
A  Right here on the edge of this door.
Q  Are you referring to the hall bath?
A  Sir, I'm sorry; it's a little hard for me.  Right here.  Okay, here we have the bathroom.  Adjacent to the bathroom we have the two doors to the linen closet, I found a set of blood stains about six feet high at the junction of the two doors.  It looked like a striped pattern -- three small stripes.
Q  Okay.  Did you collect those, sir?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time the Government would mark and offer Government 344, a vial also identified as CSC number 114, about which Dr. Chamberlain has just testified.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 344 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, did you participate in the collection of any evidence for analysis in the south bedroom?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  Would you point out the south bedroom, sir?
A  Right here; this room.
Q  And that has been identified in previous testimony as Kimberly's bedroom.  Dr. Chamberlain, can you describe the condition of the bedding as you first observed it in that room?
A  The bedding had some apparent blood stains on it, an outline with magic marker apparent, and most of the bedding -- except for the bottom sheet -- was folded back towards the back of the bed.
Q  Okay.  Would you describe, sir, what efforts, if any, you spent in collection of items in that room?
A  Yes, sir.  I collected debris such as fibers, splinters, off of the bed, in various areas.  I collected the bedding itself, and I collected several suspected blood stains from the walls.
Q  What areas of the walls did you recall, sir, that you collected blood stains from?
A  I can't recall all the areas, but there were apparent blood stains, I believe --
Q  (Interposing)  Would you point to the area where you are referring?  Oh, I have taken the wall away.  All right?
A  On this wall here, which is adjacent to the hall, I believe, also, on this wall here.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, are you pointing to -- is that the north wall of Kimberly's room?
A  The one, first of all, that I referred to was the north wall.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, the Government would mark and offer Government 348, the vial also identified as CSC-134, and Government 349, the vial also identified as D-136, and ask that they be received.

THE COURT:  They will be received.

(Government Exhibit Nos. 348 and 349 were marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Now Dr. Chamberlain, I believe you testified you collected items off the area of the bed; is that correct?
A  Yes, it is.
Q  Okay, and you mentioned a splinter?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  If you recall, sir, do you know where that splinter was found?
A  I believe it was found in one of the pillows, but I will have to take a look at my notes.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time the Government would mark and offer Government 346, the vial also identified as CSC No. 118, and ask that that be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 346 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Government 345, the vial also identified as CSC 116.

(Government Exhibit No. 345 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  And Government 347, a vial also identified as CSC 119, and ask that that be received.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 347 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, please resume your seat, sir.  I believe you testified that you remained in the area of Fort Bragg at least until the 21st of February; is that correct, sir?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  What happened, if you recall, on the 21st?
A  The evidence was assembled and taken back to Fort Gordon.
Q  Okay, when you say "the evidence," did you collect all the evidence at the scene?
A  No, sir; I did not.
Q  So, when you say "the evidence was assembled," to which evidence are you referring, sir?
A  Almost all of the evidence which had been collected at the house by the various investigators.
Q  And did you receive that?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  You had the others that you had also collected yourself; is that correct?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  Did you accompany that evidence from Fort Bragg to Fort Gordon?
A  Yes; I did.
Q  Was it in your exclusive possession for the whole time?
A  It was in my possession; yes, sir.
Q  Well, did you see anybody tamper with it in any way?
A  No, sir.
Q  When you got to Fort Gordon, what happened?
A  It was put into the Laboratory and the Laboratory was locked.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, at the Laboratory, who else, if anybody, in addition to yourself participated in the testing of blood stains in this case?
A  Janice Glisson, Terry Laber, and Larry Flinn.
Q  Did they receive evidence to be tested from you?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Did you perform all tests on every item that you examined?
A  No; I did not.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, the Government would like to offer and mark Government Exhibit 639, a chart bearing various photographs which are already in evidence to facilitate and speed up Dr. Chamberlain's testimony.

MR. SEGAL:  May we see it?

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit 639 was marked for identification and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government Exhibit 306, which, I believe, is depicted in the photograph on the chart, let me just show it to you for the sake of the record.  Did you have the occasion to perform tests on that exhibit?
A  Yes; I did.
Q  Are those results reflected on that chart?
A  Yes, they are, sir.
Q  Could you please tell us what your results were?
A  On an area designated as area 7, I performed the precipitin test which was positive.  I did the crust test which I found the presence of anti B.  In the area designated area 8, I again performed the precipitin test which was positive.  I performed the crust test for antibodies and found no antibodies.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government Exhibit 313, which has also been referred to as the "Old Hickory" knife and which Mr. Shaw testified to finding outside of the house, did you have an occasion to analyze that?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Okay, would you describe what you did to the object physically?
A  I tested the blade with the benzidine test.  This was negative for blood.  I then removed both handles and observed red-brown crusty stains.  This gave a positive benzidine test.  I then performed the precipitin test.  That was positive.  I performed the crust test and found the presence of anti B and then performed the absorption-elution test and found the A antigen.
Q  With respect to Government 312, which has been referred to as the ice pick also found outside the house near by the "Old Hickory" knife, what did you do with that exhibit, sir?
A  I examined it visually.  I tested the pick portion with the benzidine reagent and got a negative reaction indicating the presence of no blood.  I then removed this metal fitting and underneath found red crust or stains on the wood portion.  This gave a positive benzidine test and a positive precipitin test and did not reveal the presence of any antibodies.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, we would move Government Exhibit 639 as it refers to Dr. Chamberlain's testimony into evidence and ask that it be received.

THE COURT:  Very well.

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  At this time, Dr. Chamberlain, I am going to show you another chart, Government Exhibit 640, and ask you to take a look at that.

(Government Exhibit 640 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government 314 --

MR. SEGAL:  (Interposing)  We have not seen that chart.

MR. MURTAGH:  Please step up.

(Counsel confer.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government Exhibit 314, which has been identified as the Hilton bathmat, an item found on the body of Colette MacDonald, did you have any occasion to perform any tests on that?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  With reference to the stained areas as indicated on the chart which are "b," "d," and "1," would you tell us, sir, what you did?
A  Yes, sir.  I performed the crust test.
Q  And are those the results that are indicated up there?
A  Yes, sir; they are.
Q  Now, with respect to Government 315, which is what, sir, can you tell us what that is?
A  Government Exhibit 315 are the three areas that we removed for the crust test.
Q  Were those areas placed in vials?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, at this time, I will show you Government Exhibit 101, which has been identified as the blue pajama top found on the chest of Colette MacDonald, and ask you if you recognize that?
A  Yes.
Q  Now, with respect to Government Exhibit 101, the areas 24, 25, 26, and 27R respectively, what did you do?
A  The areas 24R through 27R, I did the crust test.  All of these revealed the presence of the antibody anti B on areas 25R and 26R, I also did the absorption-elution test and found the presence of the antigen A.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to each of those areas on the chart, 24R and 27R, does the absence of any letter reflecting the antigens in those columns indicate what.

MR. SMITH:  OBJECTION.

MR. MURTAGH:  These are the tests.

MR. SMITH:  I don't understand the question.

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Did you perform the absorption-elution Test on areas 24R and 27R?
A  No, sir; I did not.
Q  I take it, then, the absence of any legend in that column or in other columns indicates that you did not perform those tests.
A  That is correct, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, we would offer as pertains to Dr. Chamberlain's testimony Government 640 into evidence and, after that, we will proceed.

(Government Exhibit 640 was received; Government Exhibit 641 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I have shown you Government 641, and I ask you, with respect to Government Exhibit 270, which has been identified as the pajama top of Colette MacDonald, what tests you performed and what results you had.
A  On the areas marked 1R through 4R, I performed the crust test.  In these four cases, I found the presence of anti B.  For areas 1R, 2R, and 4R, I did absorption-elution and found the antigen A.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, is it your practice -- is it the laboratory's practice -- to perform the elution test on every single stain that you perform the crust test on?
A  No, sir.
Q  Could you explain to the jury the reason for that, sir?
A  The crust test is done first as sort of a searching technique, and, once the type of stain is  indicated, then confirmatory tests are done on some of the stains.
Q  Now, with respect to Government 271, which has been identified as the pajama bottoms of Colette MacDonald, and with respect to stains 1R through 7R, what tests did you perform?
A  For areas 1R through 7R, I performed the crust test.
Q  And the results?
A  And in each of the areas found the presence of anti B.
Q  With respect to 6R, did you perform the elution test?
A  For area 6R, I did perform the elution test and found the antigen A.
Q  Let me ask you, Dr. Chamberlin, what does the R stand for?
A  Repeat.
Q  I'm sorry.
A  Repeat.
Q  And what does that mean?
A  This evidence was initially analyzed at our lab; then, I believe, sent off for a different type  analysis, returned to us with the request to perform additional tests, so that's what the R stands for -- those additional areas were tested.
Q  Do you know where that evidence went?
A  I was told that it went to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.
Q  Do you know who took it to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology?
A  I believe it was William Ivory.
Q  And did you receive that evidence back from Mr. Ivory?
A  I believe I did.
Q  And was it in essentially the same condition then as when you first turned it over to him?
A  Yes, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, the Government would offer, with respect to Dr. Chamberlain's testimony, Government 641 and asked that that be received.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 641 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, at this time I will show you another chart, Government Exhibit 642, and ask you to take a look at that.

(Government Exhibit No. 642 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Now, sir, a few moments ago I asked you to take a look at Government Exhibit 125, specifically a splinter which I believe you testified was about three inches long; do you remember that, sir?
A  Yes, sir; I do.
Q  With respect to Government Exhibit 125 and that portion which I believe has been denominated as D-23(a), would you tell us what that is, sir?
A  Yes, sir; this is the longest splinter that was contained in that vial.
Q  And, with respect to the middle photograph there, and I can't read the number, sir, so I will ask you to. 
A  That is Government Exhibit 77.
Q  What relationship does that splinter have to that photograph?
A  This is the splinter that is in the vial.
Q  Now, what test did you perform on that splinter? 
A  I performed the anti-human precipitin test.
Q  I'm sorry, sir.  I can't hear you.
A  I performed the anti-human precipitin test which was positive for the splinter, and then I tested four areas on the splinter which I designated one, two, three, and four with the crust test.  In each case the results of the crust test were the finding of anti B.
Q  With respect to the second stain which is marked D-23(b), I believe, what does that pertain to, sir? 
A  This is another small splinter or piece of wood contained in that same vial.
Q  And was it collected in approximately the same area?
A  Yes; approximately.
Q  And what test did you perform on that, sir?
A  On that I performed the anti-human precipitin test that was positive and I also performed the crust test which revealed the presence of anti B.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would offer Government 642 and ask that it be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 642 was received in evidence.)

(Counsel confer.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, we would mark Government Exhibit 643, another chart.

(Government Exhibit No. 643 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government 322, which I believe is identified as the throw rug behind you on the bench -- let's see, I'm sorry, sir, you didn't perform any tests on that.
     With respect to Government 115, the scrapings from the blade of the Geneva Forge knife, the vial I showed you earlier, what tests did you perform?
A  I performed the precipitin test, which was positive.  I performed the crust test, which gave a mild indication of anti B; and I did the absorption-elution test, which gave a mild indication of the antigen A.
Q  Sir, how have you indicated on the chart that the indication was mild?
A  The results are bracketed.
Q  Okay, now, what does that mean in a visual sense, if you understand what the question is?
A  The agglutination that you observe microscopically is not as pronounced.
Q  Would it be accurate to say there was less clumping rather than more?
A  Yes.
Q  Now, with respect to Government 113, the stain which I believe you identified as coming from the south radiator of the master bedroom.  What did you do to that?
A  I performed the crust test and this revealed the presence of anti B.
Q  Okay, and with respect to Government 114, the stain which you identified as coming from the south closet door, what did you do to that?
A  I performed the crust test.  This revealed the presence of anti B.
Q  Now, with respect to Government 117, what did you do with that, sir?
A  I performed the crust test, which revealed the presence of anti B.
Q  Then Government 118, which I believe you identified as coming from the east wall over the northeast corner of the headboard, what did you do with that, sir?
A  I performed the crust test, which revealed the presence of anti B.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would offer Government 643 and ask that it be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 643 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would mark Government Exhibit 644.

(Government Exhibit No. 644 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I believe you testified with respect to Government 105, a piece of rubber coming from the sheet on the floor there, that you found that at the crime scene, is that right, sir?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And when you got back to the laboratory, what did you do with it?
A  I performed the crust test and this revealed the presence of anti B.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, we offer Government Exhibit 644.

(Government Exhibit No. 644 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would mark Government Exhibit 645.

(Government Exhibit No. 645 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government Exhibit 128, which you have identified as the stains from the ceiling near the light -- are they depicted in that photograph there, sir?
A  Yes, sir, they are.
Q  What test did you perform on those?
A  The crust test, which revealed the presence of anti B.
Q  And with respect to Government 129, an additional stain, what did you do with that, sir?
A  I again performed the crust test, and this revealed the presence of anti B.
Q  Now, with respect to Government 130, would you tell us what that is, sir?
A  Yes, sir, this is a portion of this stained area here, which spells out "P-i-g."  I did the crust test on that and found anti B.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time we would offer Government 645 and ask that it be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 645 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  At this time the Government would mark 646, a chart.

(Government Exhibit No. 646 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I believe you testified that you collected suspected blood stains in the hall bathroom, is that correct, sir?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Now, with respect to Government 336, could you tell us where that came from, sir?
A  Yes, sir, it came from the top portion of the stepladder indicated in the picture.
Q  Okay, and what did you do with that, sir?
A  I performed the crust test, which revealed the presence of anti A; and then absorption-elution, which revealed the presence of anti B.  I'm sorry -- revealed the presence of the antigen B.
Q  The antigen B?  Now, with respect to Government 337, can you tell us what that is, sir?
A  This is the wicker stool -- a portion of that.
Q  And what did you test for and what did you find?
A  I performed the crust test, which revealed the presence of anti A.
Q  And Government 338 -- what is that, sir?
A  I performed the crust test, which revealed the presence of anti A.
Q  All right, and Government 339, where did that come from?
A  It came from the sink.
Q  And could you describe, sir, the configuration if you recall, of those things?
A  That's on 339, my B-45?
Q  Yes, sir.
A  That's on the right side of the sink.
Q  Can you characterize it any further, sir?
A  A small amount of, apparently, blood stains, droplets.
Q  And what did you get when you performed those tests?
A  For 339, I did the crust test and found the presence of anti-A.
Q  I believe you also testified that you collected a stain off the linen closet door; is that correct, sir?
A  Yes, it is.
Q  All right, with respect to Government 344, which you have identified -- I'm sorry -- with respect to that area that you collected, can you point it out in the photograph?
A  Yes, sir; it is right here, on the photograph.
Q  Thank you.  With respect to the south bedroom, I think Government 346, which I believe you identified as a splinter coming from one of the pillows; is that correct?
A  Yes, sir; that's correct.
Q  And what did you do with that?
A  I performed the precipitin test, which was positive, and then performed the crust test, which did not reveal the presence of any antibodies.
Q  Now with respect to Government 348, which I believe you described as a stain from the north wall of the south bedroom, what did you get for that?
A  I performed the crust test for 348, and that did not reveal the presence of any antibodies.
Q  Okay, with respect to Government 349, can you point out where that stain is, in the photograph, sir?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
A  Above the picture -- in the picture, it is above the clown's picture.  It is number 136.
Q  Okay, now if you know, sir, where is that wall in relationship to the bed in the south bedroom?
A  The bed would be located right here.
Q  Let me ask you, if you were standing nearest the window, would the bed be between you and the wall?
A  Yes, sir; it would be.  This is the hall wall.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, we would offer Government 646.

(Government Exhibit No. 646 was received in evidence.)

(Counsel confer.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time the Government would mark 648.

(Government Exhibit No. 648 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. MURTAGH;
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, at this time I would like to show you a piece of floorboard bearing the marking B-216, which I believe is Government 304, and ask you if you recognize that?

(Government Exhibit No. 304 was marked for identification.)

A  Yes, sir; I do.
Q  Okay.  Did you have occasion to collect that piece of board?
A  I cut it out of the floor.
Q  Okay.  Did you transport it to the laboratory? 
A  No, I didn't.
Q  If you know, sir, did you receive it at the laboratory? 
A  Yes, I did.
Q  From whom did you receive it?
A  I don't recall.  I believe it was Bill Ivory, or Bennie Hawkins.
Q  Okay.  This time I will show you Government 301.

MR. SEGAL:  Listen, Your Honor, I would move to strike that, so much for the answers, that he doesn't know who delivered it to him.

MR. MURTAGH:  Would it help you, Your Honor, if I may request the court's indulgence a second?

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, is it recorded anywhere in your notes from whom you received that exhibit?
A  Yes, I believe it is --

THE COURT:  (Interposing)  Let's ask if this is the one, right here, that you cut out, regardless of whom you received it from.

THE WITNESS:  Yes it is, sir.

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  At this time, I will show you Government 301, also bearing the identification number D-215 and ask if you recognize that, and if you can, without it falling apart on you, show it to the jury?

(Government Exhibit No. 301 was marked for identification.)

(Witness complies.)

Q  Now Dr. Chamberlain, if you recall when you first saw that area, can you describe what it looked like, please?
A  It resembled a footprint.
Q  Okay, and did you have occasion to cut it out of the floor?
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  When was that, sir?
A  I believe that was the 21st of February, 1970. 
Q  Okay.  If you know, sir, was that before or after Mr. Medlin had looked at it?
A  It was after he had looked at it.
Q  At that time, was it a fingerprint or a chemistry exhibit, if you know, sir?
A  At which time?
Q  At the time you cut it out of the floorboard? 
A  At that time, it was chemistry.
Q  Chemistry section?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Did you receive that at the laboratory?
A  Yes, I did.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time the Government would offer Government 304 and 301, and asked that they be received in evidence.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibit Nos. 304 and 301 were received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to Government 304, a piece of floorboard also identified as D-216, what test, if any, did you perform on that?
A  I performed the precipitin test and the crust test.
Q  Okay, and what were your results, sir?
A  On one area, the precipitin test was positive, and I obtained a moderate indication of anti-B, in the crust test.
Q  That is indicated in brackets, I believe?
A  Yes, sir; it is.
Q  Okay.  Can you tell us, sir, please, what Government 305 is?
A  Yes, sir.  This was, I believe, a piece of gauze that was used to pick up a portion of the blood stain.
Q  Okay, and do you know, sir, did you do that?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And what did you do with the vial?
A  Well, I placed the gauze in a vial.
Q  Okay.  After you did that, sir, did you mark the vial?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  To whom, if anybody, did you give that vial?
A  I gave it to another laboratory person for additional testing.
Q  Do you know who that would be, sir?
A  I believe it was Janice Glisson.
Q  Now with respect to Government 301.
A  I should mention that I also did the crust test on it myself.
Q  I'm sorry, yes.  And your results?
A  I did not find the presence of any antibodies.
Q  Now with respect to Government 301, the floorboard, which you describe as originally having a footlike impression, would you point that out in the photograph, sir?
A  Yes.  301 is my 215.  It is this area right here.
Q  Approximately what portion of the footlike stain would that be, if you know, sir?
A  Well, excuse me?
Q  With respect to, I believe the chart had the stain area, 1(a) on there; is that correct?
A  The chart has area 1(a) here.
Q  Does this area 1(a) appear on the floorboard itself?
A  Yes, it does.
Q  Okay; would you tell us where that is?
A  It's a little difficult to tell right now.  It is marked here.
Q  Thank you.  With respect to area 1(a) what tests did you perform and what results did you get?
A  I did the precipitin test, which was positive, indicating the presence of human blood, and I also did the crust test, which revealed the presence of anti-B.
Q  Okay.  Could you tell us, sir, please, what Government 303 is?

(Government Exhibit No. 303 was markod for identification.)

A  303 is a vial which contains a piece of gauze I used to pick up a portion of the stain.
Q  What did you do with the vial after the gauze was in it, sir?
A  I gave it to another serologist for testing.
Q  And who was that, please?
A  I believe that was Janice Glisson.

MR. MURTAGH:  At this time, the Government would offer 648 and ask that it be received.

(Government Exhibit No. 648 was marked and received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, the Government would mark 651.

(Government Exhibit No. 651 was marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to 341, 342, and 343, which I believe you testified you collected from stains in the living room; is that correct?
A  Yes, sir; it is.
Q  Which wall, if you know, sir, were they collected from?
A  The wall indicated in this picture here.
Q  Would that be the east wall?
A  That would be the east wall.
Q  And in what relationship to the couch?
A  Approximately the height of the couch.
Q  Now, sir, what tests did you perform on those stains?
A  We performed the benzidine test on all three stains.  The result was negative in each case.
Q  And you've indicated that on that chart?
A  Yes, sir; I have.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, now with respect to Government 136 and 137, could you tell us, please, what those are?
A  Yes, sir.  Those are blood crusts or stains that were removed from the kitchen floor.
Q  Do you know where they were on the kitchen floor?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Could you point it out in that picture, please?
A  Yes, sir.  Here in front of the sink is 136, and even closer to the sink is 137.
Q  Now, sir, with respect to those stains, what tests did you perform?
A  I performed the crust test on both 136 and 137; the results in both cases were that I found the presence of anti-A.
Q  Okay, Dr. Chamberlain.  With respect to Government 132, could you please tell us what that exhibit is?
A  Yes, that was a vial that was sent to the laboratory containing blood samples.
Q  I'm sorry, I didn't hear you?
A  Containing suspected blood stains.
Q  Do you know where those stains came from?
A  Approximately in the same area as the 136 and 137; I don't know the exact area.  I didn't collect it.

THE COURT:  Now we're getting ready to take our afternoon recess.  Members of the audience, we have almost doubled our size in the last trial days.  Your goings and comings now are becoming a little bit disruptive and so reluctantly, I have to impose some rules.
     I hope they will not inconvenience anybody, but so that the jury and the trial may proceed, henceforth, please be back in here, if you intend to come back, at the appointed hour.  Today we will recess until 4:00 o'clock.  That means be back in the courtroom at 4:00 o'clock.
     If you're not, then be prepared to wait for 15 minutes before you will be admitted.  This will apply so long as we have this large crowd from this point forward.
     In leaving, if you have to leave, then go quietly, but with the understanding that you will not be admitted to come back until the next recess.  So, try to govern yourselves accordingly, and we will try to work with you.
     We want everybody to come, and it's an open trial, and be here.  But today we have had so much traffic that it is becoming disruptive so we will have to ask you to observe these rules.
     We will take a recess until 4:00 o'clock.

(The proceeding was recessed at 3:47 p.m, to reconvene at 4:00 p.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R  P R O C E E D I N G S  4:00 p.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

(Whereupon, DR. CRAIG S. CHAMBERLAIN, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:)


D I R E C T  E X A M I N A T I O N  4:01 p.m.  (resumed)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I believe that before the break, you testified as to what Government 132 was, but I don't believe you testified as to what the results were; is that correct, sir?
A  Yes, sir; I believe that is correct.
Q  Would you please tell us what tests you performed and what your results were?
A  On Government Exhibit 132, I performed the benzidine test.  It was positive.  I performed the precipitin test.  It, also, was positive.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, directing your attention to Government 103, the sheet, and Government 104, the bedspread, when you got those to the Laboratory, could you tell us, please, what you did, sir?
A  Could you be a little more specific?
Q  Let me show you at this time what will be marked Government 106, a vial bearing the legend E-211 "Debris removed from sheet on master bedroom floor."  Let me ask you to take a look at that and see if you recognize it?

(Government Exhibit 106 was marked for identification.)

A  Yes, sir; I recognize it.
Q  Would you please tell the Court and jury what that is, sir?
A  It is apparently a piece of rubber.
Q  I am sorry?
A  Apparently, a piece of rubber.
Q  Okay, you testified earlier, I believe, to removing what, I guess, is another piece of rubber, Government 105, at the crime scene; is that correct?
A  What would be my exhibit designation on that? 
Q  CSC 21.
A  Yes, sir; I did.
Q  Sir, is it correct that you found two pieces of rubber in the sheet -- one at the crime scene and one at the Laboratory?
A  That is correct.  The two pieces were found, sir.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, the Government would offer 106, and ask that it be received.

THE COURT:  All right.

(Government Exhibit 106 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, if we have not done so already, the Government would offer and ask that you receive Government Exhibits 1133, which, I believe, is the antigen chart; Government 1134, the antibody chart; Government 114, the stain from the closet door of the east bedroom; Government 115, the stain from the knife, east bedroom; Government 116, fibers from the underside of the throw rug; Government 118, stain from the wall over corner of headboard; Government 117, stain from radiator of east bedroom; Government 119, debris from sheet in master bedroom; Government 120(a), pillowcase.

THE COURT:  Very well.

(Government Exhibits 1133, 1134, 114, 115, 116, 118, 117, 119, and 120(a) were received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH:  In addition, Your Honor, I believe that is Government 651 up there, and we would offer that on the basis of Dr. Chamberlain's testimony.

(Government Exhibit 651 was received in evidence.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, did I ask you previously to prepare plexiglass walls which reflect some of the areas from which you collected blood stains?
A  Plastic walls; yes.
Q  And what did you do with those walls, sir?
A  I prepared labels which had my exhibit numbers on them in the approximate location where they were collected with respect to the model.
Q  Do those labels accurately reflect the approximate location on the scale model of the areas from which you collected the stains?
A  Yes, sir; they do.

(Counsel confer.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, with respect to the size of the labels on the plexiglass walls, what do they represent, if anything?
A  They are just large enough so that a number can be put on them.
Q  You are not saying that this is the actual size of the stain?
A  No, sir; I am not.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, I would like to have Dr. Chamberlain, with the use of the model, place these walls in the corresponding locations.

THE COURT:  Very well.

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, if you would step down, please.  I want to hand you that one.  Please tell us what that is, sir?
A  This is representative of the ceiling to the master bedroom.
Q  Would you place that -- well, perhaps that, we should put on last.  Let me give you what is marked the "master bedroom, west wall; master bedroom, south wall; master bedroom, east wall," and now, sir, if you would, would you please place the plexiglass representing the ceiling on the model?

(Witness complies.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  At this time, I will hand you what has been marked as the "living room, east wall; and the north bedroom, west wall; and the south bedroom, north wall; and what represents the hall floor."

(Witness complies.)

MR. MURTAGH: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, in addition to the exhibits which you have testified to here today -- please resume your seat -- approximately how many others did you either collect or test as pertains to the blood stains in this case?
A  Well, there were hundreds.
Q  Hundreds?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  You have not testified to each and every one of those here today; have you?
A  No, sir; I haven't.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, at this time, this concludes the Direct Examination.  Counsel may cross-examine.

THE COURT:  Very well.


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N  4:09 p.m.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, you received the high honor of the Doctor of Philosophy in Chemistry last year; is that right?
A  In January; yes, sir.
Q  And that represented the culmination of a good many years of work on your part to receive that degree; did it not, sir?
A  That is correct.
Q  Back in 1970, however, when you did all this work, you did not have either a Doctor's Degree in chemistry or a Master's Degree in chemistry; is that correct?
A  Yes, that is correct.
Q  You had, I believe, you told us completed your Bachelor's Degree at Sacramento State University; is that correct, sir?
A  No, sir.
Q  Had you not completed your Bachelor's Degree?
A  I had completed it.
Q  You also told, I think, you had eight credits toward a Master's Degree at the same institution; is that right?
A  I don't believe you have the name of the University correct, sir.
Q  California State University at Sacramento; is that the name of it?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Known to all us locally here as Sacramento State; right?
A  Locally here?  I don't know, sir.
Q  But the degree you had was a Bachelor's degree at that point in 1970?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  And you had eight credits toward a Master's degree in chemistry; didn't you?
A  That is correct.
Q  How many credits did you need altogether to have earned a Master's degree from that school in 1970?
A  30 credits.
Q  So, you were just about a little bit more than one-quarter of your way toward your Master's degree in chemistry at the time you were in the Army; is that right?
A  It depends on how you evaluate it.  On the basis of units, you could do it that way, sir.
Q  Now, I think you also -- by the way, I think you did tell us that you -- it was part of the work you did to earn your Bachelor's degree that you had 2,000 hours that had been spent in undergraduate chemistry laboratory; is that right?
A  Approximately.
Q  Approximately; well, that was what your figure was.  You picked the number; isn't that right?
A  I said it was approximately 2,000 hours.
Q  What proportion of those hours or number of those hours was devoted to the typing of dried blood stains?
A  None.
Q  In the eight credits that you took toward your Master's degree, what proportion of those hours were devoted to the study of or learning about the methodology for the typing of dried blood stains?
A  Could you repeat the question again, sir?
Q  Certainly.  In the eight credits that you earned toward your Master's degree, what proportion of the time was spent in learning or doing work in the typing of dried blood stains?
A  Well, none was directly related to that.
Q  It is fair to say, then, that all the knowledge and training formally in the area of dried blood stain typing was acquired by you during your period of time with the CID Laboratory at Fort Gordon; is that so, sir?
A  No; it is not.
Q  Well, before you got to the CID Laboratory, where had you studied and done work in the typing of dried blood stains?
A  Nowhere, sir.
Q  All right, so it was when you got to the CID Laboratory that you received your training and doing the developing and typing of dried blood stains; isn't that right?
A  Yes, sir; that's correct.
Q  And you learned that by working under one of the more senior technicians at that laboratory; didn't you?
A  Yes, sir; that's correct.
Q  Now, you arrived at the CID Laboratory, I think it was, in September of 1969; is that right?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  But you didn't actually begin your training -- that six-month training program -- immediately upon your arrival; did you?
A  I believe it was almost immediately.
Q  The six-month training program, then, ended for you on what date -- approximately -- I don't mean the exact date?  What month?
A  I believe it was March of 1970.
Q  March of 1970?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Well, if by my calculation, that strikes me as a little longer than six months, so would that cause you to think that perhaps you didn't quite start in September of 1969 your training in the lab and perhaps it was more like October; do you remember?
A  No, sir.
Q  Is it fair to say that during that six months training program you learned basic knowledge in a number of different laboratory areas and procedures, not just dried blood stain typing?
A  Is that a question, sir?
Q  Yes, sir; these are all questions.
A  That is correct, sir.
Q  One of the things that you learned about how to identify plant materials that were suspected of being marijuana; isn't that right?
A  That's correct, sir.
Q  And you also learned about the testing programs in how to identify pills and tablets and other materials suspected of being dangerous drugs; that was also part of your training; wasn't it?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And there were other narcotics that you had to learn how to conduct tests of, to identify them when they were brought in as unidentified substances?
A  Other narcotics, sir?
Q  Yes; besides marijuana and dangerous drugs -- heroin.
A  Well, sir, marijuana is not considered a narcotic.
Q  I said others.
A  Others would imply you were talking about one, though, sir.
Q  Maybe it would make it easier if you just told us, Dr. Chamberlain, what are the different areas that you were trained in in the six months besides the typing of dried blood stains?
A  I was trained in the area of marijuana identification, in drug analysis, and in serology of trace elements.
Q  Isn't it correct that it was only the last two months of your six-month training program where you received training that was at all relative to the problem of typing dried blood stains?
A  The last two months of my training program, sir?
Q  The last two months is when you started the typing of blood stains?
A  No, sir; that is not correct.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, we would OBJECT to this line of questioning.  Dr. Chamberlain was tendered as an expert and at that time Mr. Segal chose not to cross-examine him on his qualifications.  That seems to be exactly what he is doing now.

MR. SEGAL:  We have a right to question not whether he can give an opinion but how much weight should be given to his work.  I don't doubt he is entitled to give an opinion, sir.

THE COURT:  I will let him explore it little further.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Well, let me ask you, when you were asked similar matter in 1970 at the military proceeding, perhaps the answer wasn't clear and you can correct me in that regard.  I want to read to you from part of the transcript and tell us whether you either recall giving the answer or whether you accept the stenographer's transcript or you have a correction to make; is that all right, Dr. Chamberlain?  Can you do that?
A  Yes; I'd like to see the transcript, of course.
Q  Let me read it to you.  I think it will make it easier for the jury to hear it, too.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, I believe the witness requested to see the transcript.

MR. SEGAL:  I intend to read it all, Your Honor, and the Government, if I leave anything out, they can ask him anything they want, but I want the jury to hear what it says here.

THE COURT:  All right, go ahead and read it.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  I am referring to page 436 of the transcript in July of 1970.  "And when did you complete the six months training in the Army?" referring to the CID.  The answer: "the 20th of March."  Does that sound familiar or do you accept the answer?
A  It sounds familiar, sir.
Q  "Of this year or of 1970?"  "Yes, sir."  Is that familiar to you?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  "How much of that six months was devoted to the analysis of blood?  Answer: Approximately two months, sir."  Do you accept that?
A  Yes.
Q  "And when did you complete that?  Answer: In early January.  Question: Of this year?  Answer: Yes, sir."  Do you accept that?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  You don't think that is toward the end of your course, then, which I asked you before, that being the time that you had the blood training and the blood typing training?
A  Maybe I misunderstood, sir, but I believe your question was did I complete my blood training in the last two months.
Q  Yes?
A  I did not.  You are referring to the time from January to March.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I guess you and I are hung up on a very minor matter, but you said you started in September.  I count September, October, November, December, January.  You said I asked you whether you completed the last two months; isn't that what you said in your transcript here?
A  Let me explain.  The training period was approximately six months in duration.  For my particular group, it extended a little over six months.
Q  Well, again, perhaps for the last time -- when was the blood typing part?  Place it for me sometime in the six months.
A  November and December.
Q  Now, Dr. Chamberlain, from December of 1970 when you finished the blood typing training  -- the blood training -- until February 17th of 1970, how many cases had you handled for the purpose of collecting blood types in the field?
A  I did no collection in the field.
Q  You mean the MacDonald case was the first time that you went in the field for blood collection?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  And you were the only chemist who was sent from Fort Gordon to do the blood collection; isn't that right?
A  I was the only chemist who was sent from Fort Gordon.  However, there was another chemist at the scene from Fort Gordon.
Q  And he arrived a little bit after you did; didn't he, Dr. Chamberlain?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  So, you were sent from Fort Gordon and you were there before any of the other chemists and the other man, Mr. Rowe, came on just to help; isn't that right?
A  He was there later than I was, sir.
Q  Was he there to help you, Dr. Chamberlain?
A  He did aid in the collection.
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, did you receive a telephone call a few weeks ago from somebody who said they were working for me that contacted you?
A  Yes.
Q  And were you not asked a simple question of whether you were subpoenaed to be here in court?
A  Yes; I was.
Q  What was your answer when you were asked whether you were subpoenaed and what date you were to be subpoenaed?

MR. ANDERSON:  OBJECTION.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Did you not refuse to even indicate whether you were being called as a witness in this case?

MR. ANDERSON:  OBJECTION.

MR. BLACKBURN:  OBJECTION.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  All right, now, Dr. Chamberlain, you were in fact the chemistry person on the scene.  You were charged with chemistry work for the scene at the MacDonald house in 1970, weren't you?
A  I was one of the chemistry people there, sir.
Q  You are a very precise man, Dr. Chamberlain.  I thought my question was reasonably precise --

MR. ANDERSON:  OBJECTION.

THE COURT:  All right, now --

MR. SEGAL:  (Interposing)  I want to finish my question, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  But it is not a question when you are making a statement that he is a very precise man --

MR. SEGAL:  (Interposing)  I withdraw that.  I won't accuse him of that.

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECT to that, Your Honor.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  I want to know --

THE COURT:  (Interposing)  Look, just ask your questions, and just leave off the comments.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, I want to know whether you were in charge of the chemistry work at the MacDonald house?
A  Yes, I was in charge of collecting part of the evidence related to chemistry exhibits.
Q  Now, you also told us in your direct examination that you have had five publications in chemistry, and I think your words were, "some of which deal indirectly with the typing of dried blood stains.  Am I correct in my recollection of what you said?
A  I don't know if you are correct or not, sir.
Q  Would you search your memory and see whether you didn't tell us, in response to Mr. Murtagh's question, that they were -- that these five publications you bave are indirectly connected with blood typing?

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, I would object.  I believe I asked him --

MR. SEGAL:  (Interposing)  Excuse me, Your Honor, I believe I would ask for a read-back from the stenographer rather than Mr. Murtagh's interpretation of his question.

THE COURT:  I will just let you ask the question as to what his publications involved.  Maybe he can give vou the title and the citation to the books or magazines in which they appear.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Well, let me ask you this, Dr. Chamberlain: are any of the five publications you mentioned when the Government was questioning you under direct examination -- are they in any way directly connected with typing of dried blood stains; and then I'll ask you indirectly afterwards?
A  No, sir, they are not directly related.
Q  And are they in any way indirectly connected with the typing of dried blood stains?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  All right, would you tell us, please, which of the five publications that you say you are responsible for are indirectly connected with the typing of dried blood stains?
A  Several of the publications deal with the use of various techniques for determining the reactivity of various metal complexes in acid-base chemistry; and this is similar to the type of reaction that takes place in blood stain analysis.
Q  Now, first of all, how many articles deal with metal complexes?
A  I would have to check the titles, but I believe most of them do, sir.
Q  Of the five you would say what, three, four of them deal with metal complexes?
A  Most of them deal with metal complexes, sir.
Q  Four, five; can you estimate, sir?
A  Well, I have a list.  Perhaps I could check that for you.
Q  Certainly, if you would like to refer to them, please do.

THE COURT:  Are these articles that he's referring to now, are they of fairly recent origin or vintage?

THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, they are.

THE COURT:  Whatever's in those articles is a result of some training or expertise that you have acquired since 1970?

THE WITNESS:  They are not related to that training, no, sir.

THE COURT:  All right.  Will that help us to get back to this case and not something that has happened in the last year?

MR. SEGAL:  I would not have been interested, Your Honor, but for the fact that the Government developed it.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Just one last thing about those articles, in any of the five of them did you mention the word "blood" or "blood typing"?
A  No, I don't believe so, sir.
Q  You went to the MacDonald house on February the 17th, and there was some plan laid out, was there not, as to which work was to be done first -- whether it was fingerprinting first, or chemistry first, or photography first.  There was such a plan, was there not?
A  Yes, sir, there was.
Q  And who was it who made that plan and determined the order?
A  Well, the team sent from the lab conferred with the criminal investigators at the scene.  It was a mutual decision to proceed in a given manner.
Q  And which work was done first -- blood, photography, chemistry, fingerprints?
A  First, the photography people went through and covered the scene generally.  Then fingerprint people in conjunction with blood people went through and examined the areas to see which would be of interest to each.
     This was done together.  Some of the bloodstained areas -- suspected bloodstained areas -- were marked.  Then the fingerprint people would go through and collect, or at least bring out, the fingerprints; and then the blood people would mark their areas.
     The photography people would go through, photograph these, and then blood people would collect these.
Q  Well, as to the fingerprints and chemistry, who went first in each room?  Go room by room if you have to do that to help you?
A  I believe I just said, sir, that initially we went through each room together.
Q  That was just to ascertain what work was to be done, is that right?
A  That is correct, sir.
Q  At that time, none of you was actually doing any collection?
A  That is correct, sir.
Q  Now, after you had done this evaluation of the crime scene, I suppose, who went first -- fingerprints or chemistry -- room by room?
A  Fingerprints went first, sir.
Q  What room did you start with first?
A  I started with the master bedroom.
Q  And the fingerprint -- that was Mr. Medlin -- he went first in there and dusted the prints and marked prints?
A  Yes, Mr. Medlin, possibly in conjunction with somebody else.
Q  All right, but there's no doubt in your mind that Mr. Medlin went first?
A  That was the general procedure, yes, sir.
Q  And then after the master bedroom was processed, what was the next room?
A  I believe the hall and the hall bathroom.
Q  And, again, Mr. Medlin had preceded you in there doing his work?
A  Yes, sir, that is correct.
Q  And to the best of your recollection, what was the third room or third place that was processed?
A  The south bedroom, sir, processed by me.
Q  And, again, Mr. Medlin would have preceded you in the processing, doing his part of the processing before you got to the south bedroom?
A  Yes, sir, that is correct.
Q  And then after that, do you recall the next room that was processed, again by yourself, we are talking about?
A  I believe I looked at the living room, sir.
Q  You looked at the living room?
A  I processed it.
Q  It was your word, of course; I only wanted to know for certain which word.  Did you process it or look at it?
A  Part of the processing involves looking at it, sir.
Q  And after you looked at it, you did actually do some chemistry processing in the living room?
A  Yes, sir, that is correct.
Q  And had Mr. Medlin, again, preceded you with his fingerprint work?
A  I don't recall, sir.
Q  That one room you are not certain about?
A  That is right, sir.
Q  But you are comfortable with your recollection as to who went first in all the other rooms you just described?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Now, will you please tell us about the number of places you processed in the living room?
A  Tell you again, sir, about the number of places I processed in the living room?
Q  Yes, you told the Government once; I think that you made reference to having collected three stains: numbers 341, 342, and 343.  I wonder if you would tell us again about where you found them and how you processed them?
A  Those were found on the east wall of the living room about the height in the back of -- or above the couch.  These were -- portions of the wall were removed, and these were placed in vials.
Q  Now, may I impose upon you, Dr. Chamberlain, as you did for the Government, to come down to the model -- let me find a marker if I may, please -- and may I ask you if you would, please, Dr. Chamberlain, to take the red pen and indicate the three places in the living room?
A  How would you like for me to indicate, sir?
Q  Would you mark it, please, with the red marking pen I have given you if you can.
A  In what manner, sir?
Q  Would you place a dot or a shape of the approximate size as best you can recall it in red on the walls that have been installed here a few minutes ago by you?
A  Yes, sir.  This would be an approximation, sir.
Q  Thank you, Dr. Chamberlain.  If you will, return to the stand, please.  Now, do you recall, Dr. Chamberlain, there was actually a fourth place in the living room where there was blood that was collected and was considered later on in the Laboratory?
A  Yes, sir; I know a fourth place.
Q  What was that and where was that place and describe it to us?
A  Which place are you referring to, sir?
Q  Well, you have marked three places which we know to be Government Exhibits 341, 342, and 343.  I was asking you whether you recall a fourth place in the living room where something was recovered in which blood processing and blood typing was done later on?
A  Yes; I do recall it.
Q  All right, would you tell us where that place was?
A  Well, there were some eyeglasses on which a small portion of apparent blood stain was recovered.
Q  Did you actually recover them or find them or did someone else recover them and find them and process them?
A  Somebody else recovered them.
Q  But they advised you that the glasses were found in the living room?
A  I don't recall if they advised me of that or not, sir.
Q  But you now know that to be so -- that the eyeglasses that you were given for processing were recovered from the living room?
A  I don't know it for certain, sir.
Q  You transported them back to Fort Gordon; didn't you?
A  I did not say that, sir.
Q  I am asking you, sir.
A  No, I didn't.
Q  This is cross-examination.  I can sometimes suggest to you the information and you can tell us whether it is correct or not.
A  I don't believe that is correct, sir.
Q  Go ahead.
A  I don't know if I transported the eyeglasses back or not, sir.
Q  And was there not a fifth place in the living room in the MacDonald house where there was  blood recovered which was later on subject to examination for dried blood stains in the Laboratory?
A  In the MacDonald house, sir?
Q  Yes, that place we are talking about.
A  There were many blood stains in the house, sir.
Q  I am sorry -- in the living room, I am talking about.
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Where was the fifth place?
A  By the front window -- underneath the front window on the floor.
Q  Did you process that blood stain there underneath the window you described?
A  I don't recall, sir.  I may have.
Q  I will impose you in a minute to point that out to us, but I want to go on beyond there.  Was there not a sixth place also in the MacDonald living room where blood was found?
A  I guess you would have to define what you mean by "the living room," sir.
Q  You mean the geographical area you are talking about?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Well, I had in mind the area that is divided by the hallway -- that is south of the hallway here.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, if I may, I would offer that a means that would speed this up is that if Mr. Segal would refer to the areas which he is concerned about by exhibit number.  I think that would expedite things.

MR. SEGAL:  I think I will be satisfied to proceed by asking this witness if he recalls the various places, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  Well, the witness is having some difficulty knowing whether when you refer to the living room -- to the one enclosure which on some diagrams includes also a dining space, but is all part of the same room.  I understood that is what his trouble was.  Tell him which one -- living room or dining room.

MR. SEGAL:  I thought I had just done that, Your Honor, but I will re-state that.  In fact, I did it poorly, so let's include everything that is south of this wall that seems to separate the kitchen area and the area that we have all come to know as the dining area.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Did you find a sixth blood spot in this area that I have now indicated to you as what I am defining as the living room?
A  I don't recall personally finding one in that area, sir.  I could check my notes, but I don't believe so, sir.  There were a lot of blood stains collected.  I would have to review my notes.
Q  All right, do you have them with you, Dr. Chamberlain?  If you would, return to the stand, please.
A  It would help if you could tell me what exhibit number you are referring to.
Q  Well, I would ask you to refer to your notes in whatever form they are organized and tell me whether or not there is not a sixth blood stain that you recovered or processed in that living room?  They were not given numbers until after all of this.  I want to know what you did to the crime scene.  Later on, numbers come from court cases, but I need to know what you did -- however you marked it.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, I would OBJECT.  I believe the witness testified on direct in relation to vial numbers.  If Mr. Segal would give him the corresponding vial number, I think the witness would be more able to respond quickly instead of having to grope around for what Mr. Segal means.

MR. SEGAL:  I don't think there is anything mysterious.

THE COURT:  I think his question was rather simple.  He described five places and now he wants to know if there was a sixth.  The witness says that his notes may reveal such.  If they do, tell him.

THE WITNESS:  It really would help me if I knew which areas you are talking about, sir.

THE COURT:  I will just ask counsel.  Maybe I can speed it up for you.  Are you referring to something that you know has got an exhibit number?

MR. SEGAL:  Your Honor, I do not know all the Government Exhibit numbers, and I will never know all the Government Exhibit numbers.

THE COURT:  All right, the answer, then, is "no."  He doesn't know what the exhibit number is.  That answers your question, too.  You will have to do the best you can.  If you can't find it in your notes, go on to something else.

MR. SEGAL:  Mr. Murtagh, if you know the number, you can tell him.  I don't object to that.

MR. MURTAGH:  I believe I do know the number.

THE COURT:  All right, just accept his invitation and give him the number.

MR. MURTAGH:  In the interest of finding the exhibit number, I believe counsel is referring to D-144, which would, I think, Mr. Chamberlain would know by the same number.

THE COURT:  All right.  Look at D-144 and see if that triggers any response.

THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir; it triggers a response.

THE COURT:  Very well.  Shoot.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  All right, Dr. Chamberlain, what does that help you recall or indicate existed there, please, sir?
A  There was a stain on the hall floor as I described it at the west entrance to the living room.
Q  May I ask you, then, if you would, please, to mark the last couple of stains and you can add the numbers that you have used -- the one where the glasses were located if you have that number and the one where the hall floor is, please?
A  I did not collect the glasses, sir, so I could not state where that was from.  My locations are only approximate.  I think the locations are shown better on some draftings that were made here of this whole house.
Q  Do you mean on a floor plan that the Government has prepared?
A  Floor and wall plans; yes, sir.
Q  Well, can you not convert that information into this three-dimensional model and show us?
A  I can convert that information if I have it, sir.
Q  All right, sir, if you can refer to it.
A  I don't have it with me, sir.

MR. SEGAL:  Mr. Murtagh, why don't you give us the index number and we will find the magic paper.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Have you referred to the diagram that will help you, sir?
A  Yes, sir; I have.
Q  Now, will you mark the blood stain you referred to?
A  Yes, sir.  Do you want me to mark it directly on the painted model or on a label?
Q  Why don't you mark it on a label -- again, indicating approximate size.

MR. SEGAL:  May I borrow from the Government a little label?

(Pause.)

(Witness complies.)

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  You have marked, Dr. Chamberlain, with a small piece of white paper in red the number 144 for the exhibit number?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  You have already told us, however, that you don't know of your own personal knowledge the location where the eyeglasses were found in the living room?
A  No, sir; I have seen photographs of the eyeglasses.
Q  Could you then take another piece of paper based upon having seen the photographs --

MR. SEGAL:  The number is what, Mr. Murtagh?

MR. MURTAGH:  The eyeglasses?

MR. SEGAL:  Yes.

MR. MURTAGH:  D-33.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q  Mark that number and place that to your approximate recollection? 
A  Okay, this will be approximate since I don't have the photographs. 
Q  If you would like, we can show those to you, but again, it is just approximate.  I think that will be sufficient for our present purposes.
A  Okay, then, I will use a fairly large area.

(Witness complies.)

THE WITNESS:  What was the number?

MR. MURTAGH:  D-33.

MR. SEGAL:  May the record reflect that Dr. Chamberlain has marked on a red -- or on a red circular label -- a white circular label with red ink D-33.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  All right, Dr. Chamberlain, if you will return to the stand, please.
A  There is your pen, sir.
Q  You are aware also, Dr. Chamberlain, that still another item was recovered from the living room which had blood on it and that is the magazine -- the Esquire magazine?
A  Yes, I am aware of that, sir.
Q  So, that would make the sixth item as far as you know that was recovered from the living room which had blood spots on it or dried blood stains on it?
A  That is absolutely incorrect, sir.
Q  Tell us how many there were altogether?
A  The eyeglasses, one; the other area you talked about on the hall floor is two; the Esquire magazine is three.
Q  What about the three that you indicated near the sofa?
A  Those were not blood, sir.
Q  I am sorry -- what were they?
A  I don't know what they were, sir.  They were not blood.
Q  I see.  Did you attempt to identify it as dried blood stains?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  As a matter of fact, you collected them because you suspected they were dried blood stains?
A  Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q  But you were unable to make a definitive decision on that because they were inadequate.  There wasn't enough of them there to make a determination?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION.

THE WITNESS:  That is absolutely incorrect, sir.

THE COURT:  OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Tell us why you were not able to determine what they were?
A  I determined that they were not blood, sir.
Q  What did you determine that they were?
A  I did not determine that, they were anything, sir, except that they were not blood.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Well, there was something there on the wall -- those three places that are marked G-341, G-342, and G-343.

MR. MURTAGH:  Your Honor, we would OBJECT.  I believe the witness testified to performing the benzidine test, and he's testified to his conclusion of the results.  I think he has answered.

THE COURT:  He wants to know if he made any test to see what it was since it wasn't blood.  Let him answer, if he knows.  If he doesn't, he will say.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  You did attempt to determine whether it was blood in the first instance; is that right?

THE COURT:  He said that.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  After that, what other test did you make to ascertain what those three items might be?
A  I made no other tests, sir.
Q  Do you know if anybody else in the lab made other tests to ascertain what those three items 341 through 343 were?
A  No, sir; I don't.
Q  Now you mentioned to us before, Dr. Chamberlain, when you were describing the steps that you go through in making blood identification, that you make sort of a preliminary test called the benzidine test; is that right?
A  I did mention the benzidine test, sir; that is correct.
Q  You told us that when you made the benzidine test, what happened?  What did you find out when you made the benzidine test?
A  If you get a positive benzidine test, this is highly indicative of the presence of blood.
Q  Highly indicative.  I suppose you're familiar with the term "specific test"; are you not?
A  Yes.
Q  Is the benzidine test a specific test for blood?
A  No.
Q  As a matter of fact there are thousands of substances, when you apply the benzidine test, that will give you a positive reaction, won't it?
A  If you do the test correctly, I don't believe there are very many substances that will give you a positive test.  In fact, if it's done correctly, I don't know of any other test, except for blood, that will give you a positive benzidine test, sir.
Q  Well then, in your opinion, sir, the benzidine test is a specific test for blood, if you do it correctly?
A  It is close to being specific for blood, sir.
Q  I perceive some difference -- correct me -- between being close to and being a specific test.  Now what is your testimony, sir?
A  I am giving you my scientific opinion, sir.
Q  I appreciate that.  Is there any literature that you are aware of that indicates anywhere that the benzidine test is a specific test for blood?
A  Yes, there is some literature on that.
Q  I'm sorry?  You dropped your voice.
A  Yes, there is some literature on that, sir.
Q  Could you direct my attention to what it is that you have read that says benzidine is a specific test for blood?
A  I think there is an article by Culford and Nichols (phonetic).
Q  In what journal does it appear?
A  I don't remember, perhaps The Journal of Forensic Society.
Q  But that is only an approximation; right?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And that is something you read prior to February the 17th, 1970?
A  I don't know if I read that prior to 1970 or not, sir.
Q  It is a fact that the benzidine test is really a general screening test and is nowhere considered to be a specific test for blood?
A  Is that a question, sir?
Q  Yes, sir.
A  I will not agree with that, sir.
Q  All right.  The benzidine test does not unequivocally establish that the stain you have is blood; would you agree with that?
A  I would agree that it is not an unequivocal test.
Q  Are you aware that most laboratories conduct a confirmatory test in addition to using the benzidine test to determine whether they have blood or not before going on to other tests?
A  I don't know what all other laboratories do, sir.
Q  I did not ask you that.  Most laboratories that are engaged in blood, dried blood testing, use a confirmatory test because the benzidine test is not sufficient?
A  I don't know what most other laboratories do, sir.
Q  You mean you know just what the CID laboratory did in 1970?
A  No, sir; I didn't say that.
Q  Well, how many other laboratories were you familiar with at that time, as to their procedures for dried blood typing?
A  I don't know, sir -- not very many.
Q  Did you ever hear of the fact that many laboratories used the Takayama, which is a microcrystalline test, for a confirmatory test in dried blood typing?
A  I have heard of the Takayama test, yes, sir.
Q  Do you know what it is?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  What is it?
A  It is a test, a crystalline test, for the identification of blood.
Q  And it is done when, before you do the precipitin test you described here earlier?
A  It's done whenever you want to do it, sir.
Q  Oh, there's really a more precise order, isn't there, Dr. Chamberlain, in chemistry?  Not just doing things whenever you want to?
A  A precise order in chemistry, sir?
Q  Yes.  Don't you do a benzidine test first when you are doing dried blood typing?  Don't you do a confirmatory test thereafter?  Then if those two give you an indication of blood, that is the time you go, in most good laboratories, to the precipitin test?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  All right, let's say after you did a benzidrine and a confirmatory test of some sort, that is the time it would be appropriate to go to a precipitin test?
A  We don't do a benzidrine test, sir.
Q  I misspoke myself -- benzidine I meant to say.  Forgive me.
A  Often, I believe, people will do another test after the benzidine test.
Q  Did you do any of those confirmatory tests in the blood typing of this case in 1970?
A  In 1970, no, sir.
Q  Is Takayama the only confirmatory test that is available?
A  No.
Q  Do you know the names of some of the other tests that are available that would be confirming whether it is human blood or not?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  Would you name some of them, please?
A  The Teichmann test or the Hemin test.
Q  And were any of those tests done in 1970?
A  No, sir.
Q  Now, let's talk about the Lattes slide test.  You indicated -- did you not -- that you got some negative results when you were doing some of the lab tests?
A  I indicated that the examinations did not reveal the presence of any antibodies, sir.
Q  All right, and that was because you couldn't find any agglutination?
A  Yes, sir; no agglutination was seen.
Q  I can't hear you.
A  Yes, sir; no agglutination was seen.
Q  Now, isn't it a fact that one of the reasons that you might not get agglutination, of course, is that there were not any antibodies present?  That's one reason.
A  Yes, sir; that is.
Q  But there is also another reason why you might not get agglutination; isn't there, Dr. Chamberlain?
A  I suppose there is, sir.
Q  Well, can you suggest some of them that might explain the fact that you might not get agglutination in a particular dried blood stain?
A  Oh, in a dried blood stain -- not get agglutination.  No, if there's no antibodies present, you won't get agglutination, sir.
Q  That's one reason.  I asked were there others.
A  Well, you detect antibodies if they are there, sir.
Q  Well, isn't it also possible that you might fail to get agglutination because you didn't take enough of the sample to work with?  The sample was too small.
A  That is possible.
Q  And, of course, knowing the amount of blood to take per sample is something that comes with experience for a technician working in this field?
A  I wouldn't say it requires much experience, sir.
Q  Well, you didn't have very much experience.

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION.

THE COURT:  Objection SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Let me go to another matter that is of some concern to me.  Now, you say you participated in the sawing-up of some floor boards that you have been shown over there; is that right?
A  Yes, sir; that's correct.
Q  Were you in charge of that particular responsibility -- that assignment?
A  I think that would be correct to say, sir.
Q  And did someone assist you, Dr. Chamberlain?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And who was that person?
A  I believe Walter Rowe was helping me.  There may have been others.  I don't recall at this time, sir.
Q  I noticed that when we had this exhibit here in court today -- we'll just talk about, if we may, 301.  There are a couple of strips -- black strips -- nailed along the side; do you see that, Dr. Chamberlain?
A  Yes; I see that, sir.
Q  And they serve the function -- do they not -- of trying to help hold these boards together; would you agree with that?
A  I believe that is probably why they were put there, sir.
Q  When you and Mr. Rowe cut those boards from the floor, had you put any strips down to keep the boards from falling apart when you took them out of the floor?
A  No, sir; we did not.
Q  And, in fact, when you did cut them out and you tried to remove them, what happened?
A  Probably the boards separated.
Q  You mean the pieces of boards fell apart?  The notches -- they came apart from the notches; didn't they?
A  They were separated, sir.
Q  That was not a happy event in the processing of this crime scene, was it?

MR. MURTAGH:  OJBECTION.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q  Well, were you concerned as a result of that event -- the falling apart of those boards?
A  Concerned? 
Q  Yes, sir, were you concerned that it happened?
A  I wasn't particularly concerned, no, sir.
Q  Did Mr. Medlin tell you that it upset his attempt to make some kind of footprint comparison?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q  Did Mr. Medlin say anything to you about the fact that the boards had come apart?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q  Was Mr. Medlin around when you and Mr. Rowe cut those boards out? 
A  I don't recall, sir.
Q  Was he in the house at all at that time?
A  Well, I really don't know, sir.

MR. SEGAL:  Your Honor, indulge me for one second, please.

(Pause.)

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Dr. Chamberlain, what would you say was your error factor in doing these tests in 1970?  That is, what percentage of error did you have?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

MR. SEGAL:  Your Honor, may I be heard on the subject?

THE COURT:  Well, yes, you may, if you can establish by him that he will admit that there was an error factor, then I will let you ask him.

MR. SEGAL:  That is exactly what I want to do, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  Well, now you asked him, though, the final question.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  All right, let me ask a couple of other questions.  Dr. Chamberlain, there are several hundred of these tests that you performed for dried blood stains, were there not, that you participated in performing tests?
A  I participated in performing tests, yes, sir.
Q  And for dried blood stains, how many did you actually participate in?
A  Probably a hundred, maybe several hundred.
Q  And is it your belief that each and every test that was done by you was completely accurate?
A  Well, I don't know exactly what you mean by "accurate," sir.
Q  Do you believe that there are errors that may have been committed by you in the course of processing a hundred or two hundred blood stains?
A  I don't know of any.  There may have been, but I really don't think so.
Q  You don't have any belief that in the processing of 200 matters such as blood stains that there is a hundred percent accuracy factor in such work, do you?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  Is it your belief that you made no error in the processing of blood stains that you have testified to here in court today?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  He answered that.

BY MR. SEGAL: 
Q  You may answer.

THE COURT:  He answered it already.

MR. SEGAL:  I don't believe so.  That is the bottom-line question.  It is my request to ask what is his error factor in having processed these blood stains.

THE COURT:  All right, he said he probably did several hundred of these things, and he didn't know of any errors -- that there may have been some, but he didn't think so.

MR. SEGAL:  That is why I am asking does he have any idea what his error factor was?

MR. MURTAGH:  OBJECTION, Your Honor, the question assumes --

MR. SEGAL:  (Interposing)  I don't know why the Government is afraid of the truth, Your Honor.  I am tired of holding back.

THE COURT:  (Interposing)  Wait a minute now.  Members of the jury, do not consider that comment of Counsel.  The Court considers it was highly improper.  I ask you to forget that he said it.  I also remind you that in the heat of battle sometimes counsel, we hope, say things that they do not feel later in calm reflection that they should have said.
     This witness has said that he didn't think he made any errors.  The Court has ruled that so long as he does not suggest or confess that he did make an error that it is improper to ask him the percentage of errors that he made.  The objection is SUSTAINED.
     Any further questions of the witness?

MR. SEGAL:  Thank you, Dr. Chamberlain.  I have nothing further for this witness, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  Very well, that brings us to the close of this day's trial day, members of the jury.  We will take a recess now until 9:30 tomorrow morning.  Remember all those things I told you to do.  Don't talk about the case.  Don't read or look at or listen to anything about it.
     Keep open minds about it.  You haven't heard it all.  Come back tomorrow morning at 9:30.  I will let the jury retire.  Everybody else remain seated until they are gone, please.

(Jury exits at 5:00 p.m.)

THE COURT:  All right, you may take a recess until tomorrow morning at 9:30.

(The proceeding was adjourned at 5:01 p.m., to reconvene at 9:30 a.m. on Thursday, August 2, 1979.)