Article 32 Hearing
Volume 13

August 12, 1970

Susan Chester

MR. SEGAL:  At this time, sir, Mrs. John Chester, and of course she's in Baltimore, Maryland, will be called.

(Mrs. Chester testified by telephone as follows.)

COL ROCK:  Mrs. Chester, this is Colonel Rock.  How do you hear me?

A  I can hear you fine.

COL ROCK:  Please raise your right hand.

A  Yes.

(Mrs. Chester was sworn.)

COL ROCK:  The next voice you hear will be that of Mr. Segal, counsel for the accused.

MR. SEGAL:  Mrs. Chester, will you try and speak directly into the handset there in a good, clear voice, so that our court recorder here will be able to pick up your voice, on the loudspeaker.  Will you state your full name and your home address?

A  My name is Susan Chester and my present address, I will have to say it would be Pinehurst, North Carolina.
Q  From where are you speaking at the present time?
A  From Keysville, Maryland.
Q  In February of 1970, where did you live?
A  On Fort Bragg, at 306 Castle Drive.
Q  That's 306?
A  Castle Drive.
Q  Was your husband ever or at that time a member of the United States Army?
A  Yes, he was.
Q  What was your husband's rank at that time and his full name?
A  He was Captain and his full name is John Wayne Chester.
Q  Were you at home on February 17, 1970?
A  Yes, I was.
Q  And on the morning of February 17, 1970, after you awoke, what did you do?
A  I went to work.
Q  Where were you employed at that time?
A  I was employed with the United States Army Command Intelligence Center on post.
Q  And did you know or learn anything that morning about the deaths that had taken place at the MacDonald house?
A  Yes, I did.  As soon as I had gotten to work, I learned of these murders.
Q  Did you have occasion to leave work at any time that day?
A  Yes, at lunch time, I went home.
Q  Was that usual or unusual practice for you to go home for lunch?
A  No, that was usual.
Q  When you arrived at home, did you see any other person at that time?
A  Yes, I saw my neighbor, Mrs. Snyder.
Q  Do you know Mrs. Snyder's first name?
A  Jan.
Q  J-a-n?
A  As far as I know, that's how it's spelled.  It could be a nickname, but that is how I knew her.
Q  And at what address did Mrs. Snyder live at that time?
A  Mrs. Snyder lived at 308 Castle Drive.
Q  And how old a person would you estimate Mrs. Snyder to be?
A  Twenty-five.
Q  And what rank and what was the name of her husband?
A  Her husband was a Captain and his name was Kenneth Snyder.
Q  Did you have occasion to have some conversation with Mrs. Snyder when you arrived home on the 17th of February?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  By the way, was there any person present at the time that you and Mrs. Snyder talked or she talked with you?
A  Well, my husband.
Q  Was your husband at home that day or had he gone to work and come back for lunch also?
A  He had gone to work and come back.
Q  Now will you indicate to the investigating officer, loudly and clearly as you can, the nature of the conversation you had with Mr. Snyder?

CPT SOMERS:  I object.

MR. SEGAL:  Will you hold on please, one second.  We have an objection here in the courtroom.  We'll have to have a discussion which you won't be able to hear and I'll get back to you in a moment.  All right?

A  All right.

CPT SOMERS:  This is, of course, rank hearsay, which is not necessarily the only basis of this objection, but when we're going to have hearsay of this nature with witnesses who are themselves absent, then I see no reason why the conversation can be entered, Mrs. Snyder could not be heard directly and I do object to this unless there's a very good reason for it.

MR. SEGAL:  Sir, the defense has expended what I would consider extravagant efforts to bring the witness to this court, Mrs. Jan Snyder, who was known to the government and interviewed by the government, whom the government, I believe, would testify if she, herself, Mrs. Snyder, were here, that on the morning of 17 February 1970, that she was awakened because of a group of two or three men and a woman with long blonde hair was running down her street, in the direction of 544 Castle Drive and that they entered a car in front of the residence of Mrs. Snyder, that Mrs. Snyder saw this and then related this information at noontime on the 17th, to the Chesters; and that, in fact, she was interviewed thereafter by Army investigators and the government has neither noticed nor made available or assisted in any way to let the court know of the existence of this witness, whom, in my judgment, has information of the most critical nature in regard to whether or not Captain MacDonald's allegations of the way in which this crime took place are true.  It is clearly obvious, through the testimony of Mrs. Chester and Captain Chester is hearsay -- well, it is hearsay, at least, the kind that we all know about.
     We also intend to prove further that there were subsequent events which took place involving Mrs. Snyder, which other personal knowledge of other witnesses who will testify, indicating there is considerable significance to outside persons -- as to Mrs. Snyder having repeated her accusation and what she said she saw that morning, seems to me to make this critical in this proceeding.

CPT BEALE:  Where is Mrs. Snyder?

MR. SEGAL:  The defense has attempted, in seven states of the area, through investigators and other persons, to locate this woman, and we cannot.  We have constant reports carried back to us at present that she is in this area, but she was ordered off post because I understand her husband is in service in Vietnam, and she was no longer entitled to have access to post housing.  But this woman has not been able to be located by us, because we have had, number one, difficulty locating people who knew her and would admit to knowing her whereabouts and I will say again that this is a witness that the government has known of and has interviewed and, I assume, gotten statements from since about 17 or 18 February, because Mrs. Chester and Captain Chester will verify that other agents came to them, that they advised the government agents about what Mrs. Snyder had seen.  The government agents went immediately next door and interviewed Mrs. Snyder and she reported repeatedly that she had been interviewed and given this information.  So I suggest Mrs. Chester can give us --

COL ROCK:  Has anybody written to Captain Snyder in Vietnam to determine the location of his wife?  It seems to me that would be simpler.

MR. SEGAL:  If you will permit, Captain Douthat will indicate to the investigating officer what efforts were made to locate Mrs. Snyder.

CPT DOUTHAT:  I came by this information, sir, by way of rumor, which I -- informers had tracked.  I could offer proof that to my knowledge, Mrs. Snyder is now divorced from her husband.  Her husband was in the Air Force and is now stationed in Thailand.  I cannot contact him.  It is also my understanding, from talking to his old commanding officer, who I might add is also an associate of Mrs. Snyder, because he lived around the corner from them and the ex-Mrs. Snyder had his wife's wigs and other apparel that he has been trying to locate for a couple of months.  That Captain Snyder does not know where his wife is.  His wife is a Lumbee Indian, from Lumberton, North Carolina.  Her parents are Lumbee Indians, however, as a stepfather; the name is not the same as Mrs. Snyder.  I can estimate they live on a farm outside of Lumberton.  I've done everything within my capabilities to locate Mrs. Snyder.  I'll be glad to turn all of my information over to the Criminal Investigation Division, as I am certain they'll be glad to bring this -- for your edification, the statements that they took from Mrs. Snyder.

COL ROCK:  What information does the government have on this Mrs. Snyder?

CPT SOMERS:  Sir, first let me say I've never heard of Mrs. Jan Snyder.  Secondly, I do strenuously object to any testimony from Mrs. Chester with respect to any conversation with Mrs. Snyder.  I will be glad to make available all of the resources of the Criminal Investigation Division and the FBI, to the extent that I can motivate the FBI, to find Mrs. Snyder, effective right now.  But I certainly do object to any testimony of this nature from Mrs. Chester, and I suggest, sir, that we take a break now and put this apparatus to work on this question.

MR. SEGAL:  May I make a statement, sir, that may help in this regard.  One, as I said, I think we ought to establish with this witness the fact that I've indicated to you, that this witness knew the government investigators spoke to Mrs. Snyder, because they first spoke to the Chesters and went immediately next door and Mrs. Snyder was seen by them and she indicated she was interviewed.  Secondly, sir, we have other witnesses who can testify to certain subsequent events on the Saturday after the killing, of their own personal knowledge, indicating -- well, I'll indicate now, sir, the witness, Captain Chester, who on the morning of 21 February was awakened from his sleep by Mrs. Snyder pounding on the adjoining wall saying there's a man pointing a gun from across the street and Captain Chester went to the window and there were two men sitting in a car with a high-powered rifle with a scope on it, pointing in the direction of the house which Mrs, Snyder lived in.  Now, this was reported to the military police at that time, this episode and that surely should be on someone's record somewhere, and I would suggest to you that Mrs. Chester's testimony can be received, not necessarily to prove the truth of the accusations made by Mrs. Snyder, but it sets the groundwork for Captain Chester's testimony of what he saw on Saturday.  It's unusual, I think, extraordinary episode and secondly, I think you should receive this testimony, sir, so that you may ascertain whether in fact the government does know whether the prosecution counsel personally know whether government investigators do know of the existence of this witness, who would seem to have material information that should go before this investigation.

COL ROCK:  Well, the government has just indicated, I believe, while you were conversing with Mr. Eisman, that it's willing to place the CID and if it can motivate the FBI, to track down Mrs. Jan Snyder, if there is such an individual.

MR. SEGAL:  Well, the witness will indicate that the government investigators on the 17th of February interviewed this witness.  Now, it's possible it's some fault of communication between investigators and counsel.  I don't hold counsel responsible.  The government, in any case, consists of all the investigators and the prosecution and, up to this time, the investigators have not finished this information.  The government was given the name -- they know of Captain Chester, because he was on their witness list and he heard the conversation also, the words of Mrs. Snyder.  And so therefore, it is another method which the government could have been aware or should have been aware of what Mrs. Snyder had to say and there's a written statement of Captain Chester, although I don't believe this written statement had put down the substances of the conversation with Mrs. Snyder, but Captain Chester is here himself this morning and he would likewise testify to his recall of the conversation.

CPT SOMERS:  I think perhaps, sir, it is now incumbent upon me to say that my co-counsel, Captain Thompson, has spoken to Captain Chester at some length, who has never mentioned Mrs. Snyder to any of us.  Counsel for the government has never heard of Mrs. Snyder.  Certainly, we do not contend that she may not have been interviewed; however, I feel sure she didn't give that information to our agents.  But I reiterate, I am willing at this point to put the apparatus of the United States Government, to the extent that it's available to me, and that can be a rather large extent, to work on finding Mrs. Snyder.  I think we now do come down to very, very critical testimony and I object in the extreme to having it come out through Mrs. Chester.

MR. SEGAL:  Sir, I think --

COL ROCK:  Just a moment.  The government objection is going to be sustained at this particular junction, with the caveat that if Mrs. Snyder is not located, hereafter we will reconsider the offer of even using this gross hearsay to establish it.

MR. SEGAL:  Well, if I may, I did not choose to mention during it during the original argument of this matter, but I believe the government has been permitted to use a considerable amount of hearsay the whole of the testimony of the investigator who went to Long Island, repeating these incredible conversations that he had been there, but were nothing more than hearsay, and that was ruled upon.  I cannot understand when we get to something which is much more germane than the conversations in Long Island, and for the first time we have imposed upon us a rule which says you can't receive the testimony of a witness which can be offered for two reasons.  Mrs. Chester's testimony came in not only to indicate, under our rules, to permit hearsay, what Mrs. Snyder said, but we need to have her testimony as the background for eyewitness testimony of Captain Chester as to what happened on Saturday, the 21st.  That testimony will be taken out of context and will not have any meaning in the record of this case, unless it is clear what were the incidents that happened on the 17th.  In addition, we expect to ask Mrs. Chester and Captain Chester, did numerous people speak in the neighborhood about hearing Mrs. Snyder say this.  Now, not again, to say that numerous people believed her or that they knew the truth or falsity of what she said, but as a result of having heard her statements, we believe an attempt was made on her life, only thwarted because Captain Chester or other persons responded.  Now that testimony can't come into this record with any meaning, unless we have the foundation testimony of what Mrs. Snyder said to her neighbors, and I do not understand why the defense is not permitted to have hearsay at this point.  If the government wants to put its machinery into operation, I think you should permit them to do it after you've heard what Mrs. Chester has to say, but if you do not hear it anticipatorily, it's cut off.  There's no basis for the government to go and see -- they don't know what she'll say, they have no report of what she says, why should they go and look for this particular individual, merely because I said so?  I doubt that that's sufficient, sir.  Because Mrs. Chester said so seems to me is a proper basis because she is a person who was talking to the elusive Mrs. Snyder.

CPT SOMERS:  I think the remarks of the defense counsel might conceivably be apropos provided the government were not now offering to make Mrs. Snyder available, if humanly possible, and also provided -- were not the caveat on the ruling of the hearing officer that they will be permitted this testimony if this is not done.  I feel certain that the ruling of the investigating officer at this time is correct and should be adhered to.

MR. SEGAL:  Sir, this means that Mrs. Chester is to be cut off now and perhaps if we don't find Mrs. Snyder, we can put her back on.  It would seem to me the other way around; Mrs. Chester's testimony ought to be received now.  If Mrs. Snyder is found, she most obviously is going to be brought before this tribunal.  If she's not found, we still have Mrs. Chester's testimony.  If for some reason, after you hear Mrs. Snyder, the investigating officer believes that we ought to strike the testimony of the Chesters from the record that may be appropriate at that time, although again, I do not think that would be appropriate.  In view of our other consistent rulings that hearsay testimony that appears to be germane should be allowed in this proceeding --

CPT BEALE:  Mr. Segal and Captain Somers, Colonel Rock has again batted back and forth this question in light of -- going back to the testimony of the CID investigator who made the trip to Long Island, the nature of the gross hearsay which he testified to.  In an effort to save money and not have to bring the witnesses down here -- of course, the relative weight to give to that testimony, is any, is solely within the discretion of Colonel Rock -- because the presence of this Mrs. Snyder is not presently known and cannot be immediately ascertained, although it is gross hearsay, he has reconsidered the question of whether or not Mrs. Chester will be permitted to testify and has decided -- reversed himself and decided to go ahead and let her testify, although it is extremely gross hearsay, just as is Mr. Hodges' testimony, I believe.

MR. SEGAL:  Hawkins.

CPT BEALE:  Hawkins.  Again, this is received with the same caveat, that Mr. Hawkins' testimony was received and might be stricken completely from the record, if it is determined not to be of any weight at all.  Do both sides understand?

COL ROCK:  In addition, I desire that the government use all haste to attempt to locate the alleged Mrs. Jan Snyder or former Mrs. Snyder.

MR. SEGAL:  May we resume the examination, sir?

COL ROCK:  Please.

Questions by MR. SEGAL:
Q  Mrs. Chester, this is Mr. Segal again.  We are ready to resume.  I'd like to ask you again, please, will you tell us what Mrs. Snyder told you on the last time, at lunchtime on February 17th, 1970?
A  Yes.  Mrs. Snyder said that --
Q  Excuse me.  I think we've lost a little bit of your voice.  If you could speak directly into the mouthpiece.  We'll try to turn the volume up in here, but do your best to project your voice.  
A  Mr. Snyder told me when I came home for lunch that day, that that night she had occasion to get up out of bed because her daughter was crying, and when she did get up, she heard a car running outside of our house, so she went to the window and looked out and there was a car with the motor running and then she saw a girl running down the sidewalk.  She got into the car and that it took off.
Q  Did she indicate to you anything about what she noticed about the girl?  Any particular physical features or clothing items?
A  She said the girl had long blonde hair.
Q  Did she indicate whether she noticed how many people? If any were in that automobile with the engine running?
A  I can't remember her mentioning that.  Just that there was someone, you know in the driver's seat.  Other than that, she didn't say.
Q  Did she indicate whether or not the person she saw running, the girl that is, from what direction she was running?
A  She said she was running from the direction of the MacDonald house.
Q  Did she indicate what time she had observed that incident?
A  Sometime after 3.  She didn't give an exact time, but it was something after 3 o'clock in the morning.  Between -- you know 3-4.
Q  Did she give you any other information as to what she saw or heard in that particular, in regard to this episode that you're now telling us about?
A  She said something about the car, and from what I remember, she said the car was red or maroon in color and it was a convertible, I believe, but -- that's the description she gave for the car.
Q  Was there any other information that you can recall Mrs. Snyder imparting to you in this conversation at lunchtime?
A  Not about that particular incident.
Q  Did she tell you anything else that appeared to be related to anything unusual on the morning of February 17th, or in regard to the MacDonald episode?
A  Not that I can remember.
Q  Now did you have occasion to talk to other people during the course of that week of February 17th, 1970, in which anything that Mrs. Snyder said was repeated?
A  Yes.
Q  Would you tell us what, if anything, you heard from others, that is not what they actually said, but did they indicate that they had also spoken to Mrs. Snyder or that she had spoken to them?
A  Well, Mrs. Snyder was questioned and she related her story to, I believe it was the FBI, and she had also told, I believe, the neighbors on the other side of her, that would be the McGowans.  Whoever else she told, I wouldn't know.
Q  Let me ask you, to your knowledge; did she also repeat her observations to the McGowans?
A  Yes.
Q  Would you give us the full name and rank of Mr. McGowan?
A  Captain John McGowan.
Q  Do you know how McGowan is spelled, please?
A  M-c-G-o-w-a-n.
Q  What is Captain McGowan's address?
A  310 Castle Drive.
Q  To your knowledge is Captain McGowan still stationed at Fort Bragg?
A  Yes, he is.  But he's now England on TDY.
Q  Was the fact that Mrs. Snyder was telling people about her observations that she made, common knowledge in the neighborhood in which she lived?  Is the question clear?
A  Yes, I heard the question.  I would say in our immediate unit, it would be common knowledge.  Now I don't know how many other people she told besides the people that were immediately, you know, on the right and left of us.
Q  Mrs. Chester, you indicated that Mrs. Snyder has been interviewed by the FBI.  How did you know that?
A  They came to our house first and then they went next door and she wasn't home, but they returned and talked to her.
Q  You say they came to your house.  When you say "they", who are you referring to?
A  There were two gentlemen.
Q  Did they show identification indicating that they were special agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
A  Yes.
Q  And did you have occasion or did you relate to the FBI agents what Mrs. Snyder had told you?
A  Yes.
Q  And did they express or show any interest in finding out what Mrs. Snyder has actually seen?
A  Well, they wanted to know where she lived and we told them she lived right next door.
Q  Did you observe them going to Mrs. Snyder's house?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And I gather you said that you also became aware that when they didn't reach her then, they returned at another time?
A  Yes.
Q  Did they, in fact, to your knowledge or what you were told by Mrs. Snyder, ever see her or interview her?
A  Yes, they did.
Q  Do you know whether any investigator from the Provost Marshal's office, the military police, or the CID talked to Mrs. Snyder?
A  Yes, I believe they did also.
Q  Did they talk to you about the same episode?
A  No, I never talked to the MP's.
Q  Mrs. Chester, were you home in the early morning hours of Saturday, February 21st?
A  Yes, I was.
Q  Was there anything unusual that happened that morning that you saw or heard?
A  Well, I didn't see it, but that morning after I'd gotten up, I was told, again by Mrs. Snyder, that there had been a car parked in front of the house.
Q  Mrs. Chester, I think that your husband can tell us -- was he home that morning on Saturday, February 21st?
A  Yes.
Q  Now at this time Mrs. Chester, I think the attorney for the government, Captain Somers, will want to ask you a couple of questions.  Will you bear with us while I switch over to him?
A  Yes.

Questions by CPT SOMERS:
Q  Can you hear me, Mrs. Chester?
A  Not very well.
Q  Is this any better?
A  Yes.
Q  Okay, I'll try to speak up good and loud for you.  Now, as I understand it, you went home for lunch on the February17th.  Is that correct?
A  Yes.
Q  And you subsequently had this conversation with Mrs. Snyder.  Where was this conversation held?
A  It was probably in my house.  Either that or on the front steps, my front porch, just as we entered the house.
Q  You're not sure which?
A  No, I'm not, really.
Q  Did she come to you or did you run into her or how did this happen, come about?
A  No, she came over to me.
Q  Where did she first come up to you?  Do you remember that?
A  As I was coming up the walk.
Q  And what were her first words to you?
A  I'm sorry; I can't remember what her first words were.  Only that she related her story.
Q  Did this all just come tumbling out of her or did you ask her questions?  How did this happen?
A  No, I didn't ask her questions at all.  I had just come home myself, and she was the one that began the conversation about it.
Q  Do I understand that you first told her about what had happened in the MacDonald residence and then she told you this?
A  I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
Q  Do I understand that you first told her about what had occurred at the MacDonald house and then she related this story to you?
A  Oh, no.  No.  She already knew it.  I didn't tell her about it at all.
Q  What was her apparent emotional state during the time she told you this?
A  Well, she was rather excited.
Q  Did she show any fear or was upset?
A  Yes, she was afraid that -- I guess more so than anyone else in the neighborhood.
Q  Would you repeat for us, as closely as you can remember the words of this conversation?
A  Mrs. Snyder said that she had gotten up that morning and I believe she said it was because the baby was crying and when she was up, she heard a motor running outside, so she went to the window and looked out and there was a car parked -- I don't know whether it was immediately in front of my house, our house, or between her house and ours -- then she saw a girl running from the direction of the MacDonald house and she had long hair, long blonde hair.  She was running down the sidewalk and she got in the car and it pulled away.
Q  How many people were in the car?  Did she say?
A  No, she didn't really say.
Q  Now you mentioned something about there being a driver.  Did she describe the driver in any way?
A  No.
Q  Did she say anything else about this incident?
A  Not that I recall.
Q  What was your response to this information?
A  Well, merely -- I had no response.  I didn't know whether to believe her.
Q  Why?
A  Why?
Q  Why not?  Why didn't you know whether to believe her?
A  Well, I thought it mighty convenient that she would come up with that story after she heard about the murder.
Q  Had she ever given you cause to disbelieve her before this?

MR. SEGAL:  That's objected to.

A  No, I can't say that she had.

MR. SEGAL:  It's still a bad question.

Q  Just a moment, please.  What color did you say this automobile was?
A  I believe she said it red or maroon in red.
Q  Red or maroon?
A  Yes.
Q  Describe again this woman for me?
A  She said there was a girl running down the sidewalk who had long blonde hair.  They got -- and got into the car.
Q  She didn't mention anything about a hat or how she was dressed?
A  No.
Q  Did the FBI people who interviewed you identify themselves by name?
A  I'm sure they did.  I don't remember them at this time.
Q  Can you describe them?
A  They were two young men, I'd say in their late twenties.  That's about all I can remember.  They were dressed in plain clothes.
Q  Do you remember their hair color?
A  I believe they both had dark hair.
Q  Do you remember anything about their wearing apparel?
A  Just that they were wearing suits, sir.
Q  Did either of them wear glasses?
A  Not that I can remember.
Q  Now you say you never talked to the military police.  Is that correct?
A  No, I didn't.
Q  When were you interviewed by the FBI?  What day?
A  I can't remember what day, but it was a while after the murders happened.  I would say it was two weeks after it happened.
Q  And specially what did you tell the FBI about Mrs. Snyder?
A  They asked my husband and I if we had heard anything -- I forget -- that could be used as evidence and so on, and I told them exactly the same story that I have told you and Mr. Segal.
Q  Did you tell the FBI anything about your feelings as to the story?
A  No.
Q  Did Mrs. Snyder ever repeat this story to you again?
A  Yes.  I don't exactly remember when, but I heard it more than once after I heard it the first time.
Q  How is it that you know that she told this story to the McGowans?
A  I don't know for certain, but knowing Mrs. Snyder and the fact that she is a frequent visitor over at the McGowans, I feel certain that she would relate this story to them.
Q  How well did you know Mrs. Snyder?
A  Fairly well.
Q  Did you know what her permanent home address was?
A  Well, I knew her family lived somewhere near Pembroke College, and that's where they visited every weekend.
Q  You mean the Snyders visited there?
A  Yes.
Q  Do you know what the current marital status of the Snyders is?
A  No, I don't.  I assume they're still married.
Q  Ma'am, have you volunteered this information to anyone since you talked to the FBI?
A  Not that I know of.
Q  Has your husband?
A  Really, I can't speak for him, but I don't believe that he has.
Q  Why not?
A  Well --

MR. SEGAL:  Excuse me, please.

CPT SOMERS:  Wait just one moment.  I think this goes to her credibility.  The reason why her husband did or did not do something.  I'm interested in why she didn't?

MR. SEGAL:  That's not the question.  You can ask her that.

CPT SOMERS:  I'll ask her that specifically.  Ma'am, why is it that you haven't brought this up again?

A  I'm sorry?
Q  Why is it you have not reported this again yourself again?
A  I have not reported it again?
Q  Since you talked to the FBI men, why is it that you have not reported it again?
A  I didn't feel that was necessary.  My husband and I were interviewed and at that time they asked us if we had heard anything and we told them.
Q  I see.  Just a moment.  Did you hear anything the morning of the 16th or the 17th, particularly the early morning of the 17th?
A  No, I didn't.
Q  Do you know whether your husband was awake during that period?
A  Yes, he was awake.

CPT SOMERS:  Thank you very much.  I have no further questions, but wait on the line, please.

MR. SEGAL:  We have nothing further, sir.

COL ROCK:  Mrs. Chester, this is Colonel Rock.  Did Mrs. Snyder indicate what time she saw this alleged incident?

WITNESS:  She said it was after 3 o'clock.  But I can't remember a more specific time.

COL ROCK:  Now in your previous testimony, you said sometime between 3 and 4?

WITNESS:  Yes, it was, but I can't remember it -- I can't pinpoint the exact time.

COL ROCK:  But it does stick in your mind that it was between those hours?

WITNESS:  I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

COL ROCK:  It does stick in your mind that it was, the time period was between 3 and 4 and it could not have been after 4?

WITNESS:  Yes, it does stick out in my mind that that was the time.  That's when she called us.

COL ROCK:  When you say you called us, who was the "us"?

WITNESS:  My husband and I.

COL ROCK:  You were both together at the time she told you this?

WITNESS:  Well, originally I think I was by myself and then she told us both together.

COL ROCK:  I see.  Your husband came home for lunch also on that date?

WITNESS:  Yes.  He came home for lunch.

COL ROCK:  How did you first hear the news of the murder while you were at work?

WITNESS:  As soon as I got to work, I heard of the murders from one of the girls that live directly across the street or catty-corner across the street from Captain MacDonald.

COL ROCK:  Prior to the time that you talked to Mrs. Snyder, had you heard any information concerning the description of the alleged assailants?


COL ROCK:  You said you spoke to FBI agents.  Have you also spoken to CID agents?

WITNESS:  I've only spoke to agents on one occasion.

COL ROCK:  And you are certain that they were FBI agents and not CID agents?

WITNESS:  I believe they were FBI agents.  My husband was present at the interview, too, and perhaps he could clarify that.  But as far as I can remember, they were FBI agents.

COL ROCK:  If you can, would you characterize Mrs. Snyder's reputation in the neighborhood?  Was she a neighborhood gossip or a pretty solid citizen or how would you describe her?

WITNESS:  Mrs. Snyder was an extrovert and she usually made friends with people.  As soon as someone would move in, that day she would be over there, introducing herself and so on.  She was talkative.

COL ROCK:  All right.  Thank you.  I have no further questions.  Wait one moment, please.  Have you any further questions?

MR. SEGAL:  I have no further questions.

COL ROCK:  Mrs. Chester, you are requested not to discuss your testimony with any person other than counsel for the government or counsel for the accused.  Do you understand that, ma'am?

WITNESS:  Yes, I do.

COL ROCK:  Thank you very much.  The next voice you hear will be that of Captain Douthat.  Thank you very much for talking with us this morning.  I'm going to cut off our loudspeaker system.

WITNESS:  All right.

COL ROCK:  The hearing will be recessed for 15 minutes.

(The hearing was recessed at 0955 hours, 12 August 1970.)