Trial Transcripts
August 27, 1979
John Myers
MR. SEGAL: If Your Honor pleases, the Defense calls Mr. John Myers.
MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, may we approach the bench just a moment?
THE COURT: Yes, come up.
B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E
MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, I think with Mr. Myers being a private investigator, I believe employed by Mr. Smith, and I believe involved in the Helena Stoeckley interviews and whatnot, I think we are entitled to an offer of proof at this time as to whether this is another witness that is going to testify as to out-of-court statements by Helena, or anything like that. And I would request that of the Defense.
MR. SEGAL: He is not going to testify to anything Helena Stoeckley said. He will testify as to the date that a certain photograph of her was obtained, which has been referenced in evidence.
MR. MURTAGH: Is he going to testify as to when it was taken or when he got it?
MR. SEGAL: When it was obtained by the Defense. As to the date it was taken, it appears on the face of the photograph when it was taken itself. It goes to the question as to whether or not Dr. MacDonald saw this photograph prior to the time that the color drawings were made.
(Bench conference terminated.)
(Whereupon, JOHN DOLAN MYERS was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:)
D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 10:45 a.m.
BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Myers, would you state your full name and your address, please?
A John Dolan Myers, 313 Oakwood Avenue, Raleigh.
Q Mr. Myers, what is your occupation?
A I am a private investigator.
Q Have you been working recently on behalf of Dr. MacDonald in connection with this case?
A Yes, sir; I have.
Q Were you employed by Mr. Wade Smith, my colleague here in this case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you requested at some time since you started working with Mr. Smith and myself to obtain a photograph of Helena Stoeckley?
A Yes, sir; I was.
Q And did you, in fact, obtain such a photograph?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q Do you recall when it was and from whom you obtained it, and under what circumstances?
A I remember most of that. I know I obtained it on June 26 -- I'm sorry, July 26th, of this year. I obtained it from the Fayetteville Police Department, the department of -- I don't know what department it would have been -- fingerprints and mug shots. I do not recall the gentleman's name I obtained it directly from. He was head of the department.
Q How did you get them to release that photograph to you?
A I carried a subpoena in general to the Police Department, served it on the Chief of Police, and he sent me to this gentleman in this particular department.
Q And all those events took place on July 26th of this year?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, let me show you a couple photographs, Mr. Myers. First of all, Mr. Myers, if I may, I want to show you a photograph with some attached documents that have been identified as D-112 for identification. Can you tell us whether you recognize these, and if you do what are they, please?
A Yes, sir; I do.
(Defendant Exhibit No. 112 was marked for identification.)
A These are the documents along with the picture that I picked up from the Fayetteville Police Department.
Q On July 26th?
A On July 26th of this year.
Q And that photograph that appears on the top, is that the photograph that was supplied to you by the identification bureau of the Fayetteville Police Department?
A Yes, sir; it is.
Q Is it the first time you obtained any photograph of Helena Stoeckley in connection with your work in this case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Let me show you another photograph that has been previously identified in this case as D-86, and tell us if you know what D-86 is?
A Yes, sir; this is an enlargement of the photograph I obtained from the Police Department.
Q Now, finally, let me show you a drawing which has been marked D-89, that was made as a result of Dr. MacDonald working with a police artist while under hypnosis. Do you know when that drawing was made?
A I do not know the specific date that the picture was made. I know the time frame.
Q Time frame? What is that, please?
A Somewhere between June 14th and June 22nd of this year.
MR. SEGAL: I have no further questions of Mr. Myers. You may cross-examine.
C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N 10:47 a.m.
MR. MURTAGH:
Q All right, sir. Mr. Myers, with respect to that photograph that you obtained under subpoena, would you please tell us what the date, if any, of the photograph that appears in the photograph itself? It is a mug shot, is it not?
A Yes, sir.
Q Will you tell us what the date of that photograph is, please?
A I know it is the year 1970. I do not know the specific date other than that.
Q Well, would you disagree that the date that appears is 8/10/70? Any further --
MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Could we just simply show it to the witness, Your Honor?
MR. MURTAGH: I thought he had it.
MR. SEGAL: I'll put it back.
THE COURT: If that's what is on there, just state it.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry; I did not look at the date on it.
MR. MURTAGH:
Q We are talking about a mug shot, are we not?
A Right.
Q Would you read the date that appears?
A Right; the date is 8/10/70.
Q Okay; now, let me ask you, Mr. Myers, with respect to that photograph, do you know whether either -- well, certainly not that photograph -- but a copy of that photograph was ever shown to the Defendant, Dr. MacDonald?
A No, sir; I do not know.
Q Did you have occasion to review a transcript of the interviews of Dr. MacDonald in 1971 by Agents Kearns and Pruett?
A It is possible I did. I read parts of various things -- of the transcript. I do not remember that specifically.
Q Do you recall any part of that transcript dealing with a showing of a photograph of Helena Stoeckley?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Do you know that it does not refer to it?
A No, sir.
Q Now, with respect to Government Exhibit G-105, which has been identified as the photograph of Helena Stoeckley shown to the Defendant at the Article 32 investigation. Let me hand you that, sir. Do you know whether a copy of that photograph was ever furnished to the Defense?
A Was ever furnished to the Defense?
Q Yes, sir.
A No, sir; I don't know.
Q You have no personal knowledge?
A I have seen this photograph since this trial began. But I do not know who it belonged to. And I don't know if it was your photograph or our photograph. I don't know if this was given to us.
Q Mr. Myers, let me tell you that with respect to that photograph -- in my question I asked with respect to the identification of that photograph, which was introduced at the Article 32 investigation, and about which there has been testimony in this case, specifically the Defendant's testimony from the Article 32 -- do you know of your own personal knowledge whether that photograph or a copy of it was ever given to the Defendant?
A I do not know that.
Q With respect to -- Your Honor, if I may at this time -- may I publish these two photographs simultaneously to the jury?
THE COURT: Yes. They are already in evidence; aren't they?
MR. MURTAGH: Yes, sir.
(Exhibits passed among the jury.)
MR. MURTAGH:
Q Now, Mr. Myers, with respect to the photograph from the Article 32 and the mug-shot photograph taken during August, 1970, but obtained by you under subpoena, have you had occasion to compare those two photographs?
A You are asking me if I have had occasion to compare these two?
Q Yes?
A Not until just now.
Q Okay. Well, based on your comparison just now, let me ask you: is the photograph taken from the Article 32 investigation -- the person depicted in that -- recognizable to you as Helena Stoeckley?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Now, with respect to this artist's conception drawing, which is Defendant 99, I believe you testified as to the time frame in which that was done?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Do you know who the police artist was?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Do you know who was present?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Were you present when that sketch was done?
A No, sir.
Q Let me ask you: how do you know when it was done if you weren't present?
A I was told the date.
Q Okay. Who told you the date?
A Mr. Segal.
Q But you have no personal knowledge of that?
A No, sir.
MR. MURTAGH: Thank you.
R E D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 10:53 a.m.
BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Just very briefly, Mr. Myers, in regard to Helena Stoeckley, when did you start trying to find that lady?
A My first involvement with this case was in March of this year.
Q Yes, sir.
A Everything I did was either directly or indirectly with reference to Helena Stoeckley. I do not remember a specific date on which I actively went after her as an individual.
Q Were you present when she was brought into the Court or brought to the Courthouse a few weeks ago and questioned here by Defense Counsel?
A Yes, sir.
Q You spent time with her at that time?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you are now looking at that photograph and being asked whether you recognize it, having spent what -- the better part of a couple of days with her?
A Yes, sir.
MR. SEGAL: I have nothing further, Mr. Myers. Anything further from the Government?
MR. MURTAGH: No, thank you.
MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, may this witness be excused?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. SEGAL: Thank you. You may step down, Mr. Myers.
(Witness excused.)
MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, may we approach the bench just a moment?
THE COURT: Yes, come up.
B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E
MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, I think with Mr. Myers being a private investigator, I believe employed by Mr. Smith, and I believe involved in the Helena Stoeckley interviews and whatnot, I think we are entitled to an offer of proof at this time as to whether this is another witness that is going to testify as to out-of-court statements by Helena, or anything like that. And I would request that of the Defense.
MR. SEGAL: He is not going to testify to anything Helena Stoeckley said. He will testify as to the date that a certain photograph of her was obtained, which has been referenced in evidence.
MR. MURTAGH: Is he going to testify as to when it was taken or when he got it?
MR. SEGAL: When it was obtained by the Defense. As to the date it was taken, it appears on the face of the photograph when it was taken itself. It goes to the question as to whether or not Dr. MacDonald saw this photograph prior to the time that the color drawings were made.
(Bench conference terminated.)
(Whereupon, JOHN DOLAN MYERS was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:)
D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 10:45 a.m.
BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Myers, would you state your full name and your address, please?
A John Dolan Myers, 313 Oakwood Avenue, Raleigh.
Q Mr. Myers, what is your occupation?
A I am a private investigator.
Q Have you been working recently on behalf of Dr. MacDonald in connection with this case?
A Yes, sir; I have.
Q Were you employed by Mr. Wade Smith, my colleague here in this case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you requested at some time since you started working with Mr. Smith and myself to obtain a photograph of Helena Stoeckley?
A Yes, sir; I was.
Q And did you, in fact, obtain such a photograph?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q Do you recall when it was and from whom you obtained it, and under what circumstances?
A I remember most of that. I know I obtained it on June 26 -- I'm sorry, July 26th, of this year. I obtained it from the Fayetteville Police Department, the department of -- I don't know what department it would have been -- fingerprints and mug shots. I do not recall the gentleman's name I obtained it directly from. He was head of the department.
Q How did you get them to release that photograph to you?
A I carried a subpoena in general to the Police Department, served it on the Chief of Police, and he sent me to this gentleman in this particular department.
Q And all those events took place on July 26th of this year?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, let me show you a couple photographs, Mr. Myers. First of all, Mr. Myers, if I may, I want to show you a photograph with some attached documents that have been identified as D-112 for identification. Can you tell us whether you recognize these, and if you do what are they, please?
A Yes, sir; I do.
(Defendant Exhibit No. 112 was marked for identification.)
A These are the documents along with the picture that I picked up from the Fayetteville Police Department.
Q On July 26th?
A On July 26th of this year.
Q And that photograph that appears on the top, is that the photograph that was supplied to you by the identification bureau of the Fayetteville Police Department?
A Yes, sir; it is.
Q Is it the first time you obtained any photograph of Helena Stoeckley in connection with your work in this case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Let me show you another photograph that has been previously identified in this case as D-86, and tell us if you know what D-86 is?
A Yes, sir; this is an enlargement of the photograph I obtained from the Police Department.
Q Now, finally, let me show you a drawing which has been marked D-89, that was made as a result of Dr. MacDonald working with a police artist while under hypnosis. Do you know when that drawing was made?
A I do not know the specific date that the picture was made. I know the time frame.
Q Time frame? What is that, please?
A Somewhere between June 14th and June 22nd of this year.
MR. SEGAL: I have no further questions of Mr. Myers. You may cross-examine.
C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N 10:47 a.m.
MR. MURTAGH:
Q All right, sir. Mr. Myers, with respect to that photograph that you obtained under subpoena, would you please tell us what the date, if any, of the photograph that appears in the photograph itself? It is a mug shot, is it not?
A Yes, sir.
Q Will you tell us what the date of that photograph is, please?
A I know it is the year 1970. I do not know the specific date other than that.
Q Well, would you disagree that the date that appears is 8/10/70? Any further --
MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Could we just simply show it to the witness, Your Honor?
MR. MURTAGH: I thought he had it.
MR. SEGAL: I'll put it back.
THE COURT: If that's what is on there, just state it.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry; I did not look at the date on it.
MR. MURTAGH:
Q We are talking about a mug shot, are we not?
A Right.
Q Would you read the date that appears?
A Right; the date is 8/10/70.
Q Okay; now, let me ask you, Mr. Myers, with respect to that photograph, do you know whether either -- well, certainly not that photograph -- but a copy of that photograph was ever shown to the Defendant, Dr. MacDonald?
A No, sir; I do not know.
Q Did you have occasion to review a transcript of the interviews of Dr. MacDonald in 1971 by Agents Kearns and Pruett?
A It is possible I did. I read parts of various things -- of the transcript. I do not remember that specifically.
Q Do you recall any part of that transcript dealing with a showing of a photograph of Helena Stoeckley?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Do you know that it does not refer to it?
A No, sir.
Q Now, with respect to Government Exhibit G-105, which has been identified as the photograph of Helena Stoeckley shown to the Defendant at the Article 32 investigation. Let me hand you that, sir. Do you know whether a copy of that photograph was ever furnished to the Defense?
A Was ever furnished to the Defense?
Q Yes, sir.
A No, sir; I don't know.
Q You have no personal knowledge?
A I have seen this photograph since this trial began. But I do not know who it belonged to. And I don't know if it was your photograph or our photograph. I don't know if this was given to us.
Q Mr. Myers, let me tell you that with respect to that photograph -- in my question I asked with respect to the identification of that photograph, which was introduced at the Article 32 investigation, and about which there has been testimony in this case, specifically the Defendant's testimony from the Article 32 -- do you know of your own personal knowledge whether that photograph or a copy of it was ever given to the Defendant?
A I do not know that.
Q With respect to -- Your Honor, if I may at this time -- may I publish these two photographs simultaneously to the jury?
THE COURT: Yes. They are already in evidence; aren't they?
MR. MURTAGH: Yes, sir.
(Exhibits passed among the jury.)
MR. MURTAGH:
Q Now, Mr. Myers, with respect to the photograph from the Article 32 and the mug-shot photograph taken during August, 1970, but obtained by you under subpoena, have you had occasion to compare those two photographs?
A You are asking me if I have had occasion to compare these two?
Q Yes?
A Not until just now.
Q Okay. Well, based on your comparison just now, let me ask you: is the photograph taken from the Article 32 investigation -- the person depicted in that -- recognizable to you as Helena Stoeckley?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Now, with respect to this artist's conception drawing, which is Defendant 99, I believe you testified as to the time frame in which that was done?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Do you know who the police artist was?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Do you know who was present?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Were you present when that sketch was done?
A No, sir.
Q Let me ask you: how do you know when it was done if you weren't present?
A I was told the date.
Q Okay. Who told you the date?
A Mr. Segal.
Q But you have no personal knowledge of that?
A No, sir.
MR. MURTAGH: Thank you.
R E D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 10:53 a.m.
BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Just very briefly, Mr. Myers, in regard to Helena Stoeckley, when did you start trying to find that lady?
A My first involvement with this case was in March of this year.
Q Yes, sir.
A Everything I did was either directly or indirectly with reference to Helena Stoeckley. I do not remember a specific date on which I actively went after her as an individual.
Q Were you present when she was brought into the Court or brought to the Courthouse a few weeks ago and questioned here by Defense Counsel?
A Yes, sir.
Q You spent time with her at that time?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you are now looking at that photograph and being asked whether you recognize it, having spent what -- the better part of a couple of days with her?
A Yes, sir.
MR. SEGAL: I have nothing further, Mr. Myers. Anything further from the Government?
MR. MURTAGH: No, thank you.
MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, may this witness be excused?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. SEGAL: Thank you. You may step down, Mr. Myers.
(Witness excused.)